please help identify! 0

[PluckNine]

Hello everyone,

 

This is my first post on this forum. hope I am posting properly. I am a estate buyer, and I mostly deal with jewelry and watches. I usually keep the coins for my own collection. I recently came across this coin, and I'm having trouble identifying it (pics below) I find similar ones, but none like it. please let me know what you think! any and all info is helpful!

Its a shame someone put a hole in it...

Edited July 11, 2021 by PluckNine

[RWB]

This will give you a painless start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducat

[JKK]

Looks Venetian. The key there is to figure out which Doge they are talking about. To start playing doge ball, I would start looking up the legend. I did so and came up with Alois Mocenigo, Doge of Venice 1722-1736 AD.

[RWB]

Good info. Bad pun.

[VKurtB]

23 hours ago, JKK said:

Looks Venetian. The key there is to figure out which Doge they are talking about. To start playing doge ball, I would start looking up the legend. I did so and came up with Alois Mocenigo, Doge of Venice 1722-1736 AD.

You Doge, you. 

[Nick Bogiatzis]

Hello. This is the Venetian silver quarter ducat inexplicably cast in gold. Dating is correct. Damaged for jewellery. I note you are a dealer. I could be interested in purchasing it. 

[Conder101]

Is it actually gold or gold plated?  If it was used as jewelry a gold plating is very possible.

[GBrad]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:24 PM, Conder101 said:

Is it actually gold or gold plated?  If it was used as jewelry a gold plating is very possible.

Here comes an observation from a "Newb" (I can see eyes rolling right now through my computer monitor) but....... Here it goes:  In my defense I am NOWHERE near knowledgable, by any stretch of the imagination, when it comes to gold coins (ok,, that's my disclaimer..Phew....). So, pure gold, or relatively pure gold, is obviously a very soft and malleable precious metal.  I am an avid metal detecting enthusiast and gold prospector and have been fortunate enough to find some nice pickers, nuggets and I have filled vials with gold flakes and dust (fly poop as it's referred to) over the years which I have made into small jewelry items for family members on occasion. I am somewhat familiar with the properties of gold.  With that said.... the hole in the coin (particularly the obverse pic) IMHO appears to exhibit what solid gold would do if 'punched' through as it is. Meaning the dis-formation of the metal that took on a cone-like wavy appearance on the obverse which I believe to be consistent with pure gold.  The reverse pic appears to obviously be the side from which an object was inserted into the coin, sadly so.  I'm sure there are other ways you experts can tell if it is solid or plated (obviously by weight)  but I was bored, saw this really neat coin, and just thought I throw my 2 pennies out here......

Edited August 11, 2021 by GBrad

[gmarguli]

Undated 1763 or 1767 Italy Venice 1/4 Ducato. Doge is Alvise Giovanni Mocenigo. Mintmaster "DG" is Domenego Gritti.

Not a rare coin. Probably worth $100 without the hole. 

[JT2]

ahhhh miyagi dojo

[Nick Bogiatzis]

Have noted comment that not rare.  Still interested in buying one if anyone knows of availability. A long family story re my interest. 

[gmarguli]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:10 AM, Nick Bogiatzis said:

Have noted comment that not rare.  Still interested in buying one if anyone knows of availability. A long family story re my interest. 

Are you looking for this specific date/mintmaster and/or denomination or just this general design? They come bigger. From my collection, this coin in the full Ducato variety of this date/MM. 

If you're just looking for the design, there are a lot of dates and denominations to choose from. Most aren't expensive until you get into high grade. 

 

[Nick Bogiatzis]

On 8/13/2021 at 3:52 AM, gmarguli said:

Are you looking for this specific date/mintmaster and/or denomination or just this general design? They come bigger. From my collection, this coin in the full Ducato variety of this date/MM. 

If you're just looking for the design, there are a lot of dates and denominations to choose from. Most aren't expensive until you get into high grade. 

 

 

On 8/13/2021 at 3:52 AM, gmarguli said:

Are you looking for this specific date/mintmaster and/or denomination or just this general design? They come bigger. From my collection, this coin in the full Ducato variety of this date/MM. 

If you're just looking for the design, there are a lot of dates and denominations to choose from. Most aren't expensive until you get into high grade. 

 

A beautiful coin. Not fussed re condition or date, but wanting the gold variant. 

[gmarguli]

On 8/12/2021 at 2:33 PM, Nick Bogiatzis said:

A beautiful coin. Not fussed re condition or date, but wanting the gold variant. 

You can find this design in gold, but they are presentation pieces / patterns. Damaged examples trade around $3K. Nicer ones $5K-10K. 

There are some large size gold examples with a similar reverse (lion) design, but has a different design with Saint Justina instead of St. Marks on the obverse. They generally trade in the $70K-$130K+ range for average quality examples. 

[Nick Bogiatzis]

Whew, this is beyond my budget. But I’d like to learn more. Thank you for your responses. What do you mean by ‘presentation pieces / patterns’? And if you become aware of any for sale I’d still have an interest in observing, so would appreciate an alert. Many thanks

[RWB]

Look at the flaked color on the reverse at and somewhat above the hole. Further, the texture should vary with wear, but it does not. Likely plated for jewelry use and sold to an unknowing tourist before they fell into the lagoon next to their 75-storey cruise ship.

[PluckNine]

On 8/15/2021 at 10:22 PM, RWB said:

Look at the flaked color on the reverse at and somewhat above the hole. Further, the texture should vary with wear, but it does not. Likely plated for jewelry use and sold to an unknowing tourist before they fell into the lagoon next to their 75-storey cruise ship.

Hey everyone, sorry I haven’t commented back. This coin has been tested. It is not plated.

[PluckNine]

On 8/15/2021 at 10:15 PM, Nick Bogiatzis said:

Whew, this is beyond my budget. But I’d like to learn more. Thank you for your responses. What do you mean by ‘presentation pieces / patterns’? And if you become aware of any for sale I’d still have an interest in observing, so would appreciate an alert. Many thanks

Hey, this coin is not plated. It has been tested. DM me if your interested and we can work out a price

[PluckNine]

On 8/13/2021 at 3:16 PM, gmarguli said:

You can find this design in gold, but they are presentation pieces / patterns. Damaged examples trade around $3K. Nicer ones $5K-10K. 

There are some large size gold examples with a similar reverse (lion) design, but has a different design with Saint Justina instead of St. Marks on the obverse. They generally trade in the $70K-$130K+ range for average quality examples. 

What do you think the coin I posted is worth? Roughly...

[RWB]

On 8/16/2021 at 1:23 PM, PluckNine said:

Hey everyone, sorry I haven’t commented back. This coin has been tested. It is not plated.

How was it tested? What is the density? It should be 19.32 grams/cm³ if pure gold; somewhat less depending on alloy and actual gold content. (Check the story about Archimedes.) What caused the discoloration?

XRF will only show the surface unless used carefully. Jeweler measurements with a handheld XRF are not reliable.

Edited August 16, 2021 by RWB

[Conder101]

If it is actually gold and not the silver version there should be a significant weight difference as well.

[gmarguli]

On 8/16/2021 at 10:29 AM, PluckNine said:

What do you think the coin I posted is worth? Roughly...

$20 if silver. $2500 if gold. I do not believe it is gold. Looks plated.

 

On 8/16/2021 at 11:19 AM, RWB said:

XRF will only show the surface unless used carefully. Jeweler measurements with a handheld XRF are not reliable.

Saw one used at a show by a MAJOR bullion dealer. The coin was silver plated, but the XRF said silver. Twice I have sold gold jewelry where the gun indicated plated, but they were 18K gold. 

[PluckNine]

I’ve brought this coin to multiple Jewlers, that we’re willing to buy it for scrap gold. All of them said over 18k and not pure. Everyone of them was comfortable saying it was 22k. I’ve attached a picture of the coin on a scale, it’s a lot less then what the other post said it should weigh. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

I'm not familiar with these but 6.2g seems significantly under weight for a gold coin of this type based on my quick searching, as you stated. My best guess is that it's either an authentic silver coin that was plated or possibly a gold replica, some dimensions, diameter and thickness, would help in determining between the two.

[Conder101]

Appears to be a Venetian 1/4 Ducat either C# 38 or C# 62 dependin on what the initials are on the bottom of the other side.  ZD is C#38, DG GAF or W would be C#62.  Only problem is it should be 826 fine silver,  I suspect a gold plated 1/4 ducat

[Nick Bogiatzis]

Hello PluckNine. May I ask what the jewellers are offering you for it and what you might sell it for?  Nick

[Nick Bogiatzis]

Hello again Pluckline.  All the best for the new year.

Did you decide what you wanted to do with this coin?

regards, Nick

[portmanson]

Hello, have you done something with the coin yet? I guess if you sell it some money you can get