Jeff Garrett: The World's Most Valuable Coin 1 1

[NicholePer]

The 1933 Double Eagle reigns today, but other rarities could one day hold numismatics’ top spot. Learn more.

[RWB]

"Expensive" and "valuable" are not synonyms.

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

"Expensive" and "valuable" are not synonyms.

I am willing to concede they are not synonymous. How does high-value target sound? With the '33 out of the way, Who's on First now?  

[GoldFinger1969]

Until the Langbord Ten (and any others) are liberated from the clutches of Fort Knox, the 1933 Weitzman/Farouk Saint probably will remain at the top, unless the U.S. Government decides to sell the 1849 Liberty DE.

[RWB]

Fortunately, the 1849 DE and rest of the National Numismatic Collection belong to the Smithsonian Institution, not a government agency who can be ordered to sell.

[zadok]

2 hours ago, RWB said:

"Expensive" and "valuable" are not synonyms.

close nuf for gov't work....

[MarkFeld]

10 hours ago, RWB said:

"Expensive" and "valuable" are not synonyms.

In many, if not most cases, they are.

“Definition of valuable

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1a: having monetary value

b: worth a good price”

But if you disagree, what would you consider to be a few of the most “valuable” coins?

[Moxie15]

ex·pen·sive

/ikˈspensiv/

Learn to pronounce

 

adjective

 

1. costing a lot of money.

   "keeping a horse is expensive"

    

    

   val·u·a·ble

   /ˈvaly(o͞o)əb(ə)l/

   Learn to pronounce

    

   adjective

    

   1. worth a great deal of money.

      "a valuable antique"

       

       

       

       

       

   noun

    

   1. a thing that is of great worth, especially a small item of personal property.

      "put all your valuables in the hotel safe"

       

       

[Moxie15]

Just because someone is willing to spend $400 on a $40 item does not make the item more valuable, just more expensive.

ex.

I was attending a charity auction after a spring training baseball game the year after Cal Ripkin retired. This auction was to support the local little league. When a signed Cal Ripkin ball came up two people got into a bidding war; when the price hit $100 the auctioneer paused and said that the ball was worth $40, and asked if they wished to keep going. The two nodded and the bidding went to $400.

[RWB]

That's a meaningful anecdote to describe the differences: cost vs worth

Edited June 30, 2021 by RWB

[Alex in PA.]

1 hour ago, Moxie15 said:

the auctioneer paused and said that the ball was worth $40, and asked if they wished to keep going.

I hope they never hire that fool again.  It was for C H A R I T Y and not to impress some fools.  

[Moxie15]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

I hope they never hire that fool again.  It was for C H A R I T Y and not to impress some fools.  

actually he was praised. This was a collection of about two dozen bidders bidding on about 50 items with a couple of retired players holding up the items and very low key. 

[World Colonial]

I read the article in Coin Week.  I'd guess most collectors who are aware of the most prominent US coinage already know the 1849 DE and J-1776 are potentially (and presumably) worth more.

So is the 1877 Half Union pattern, though I'd much rather have the Garrett $50 proof slug which last I checked was estimated at $2.5MM.

[gmarguli]

Article should read: Jeff Garrett: The World's Most Valuable US Coin

There are many world coins that have sold for $1M+ and with the extreme wealth being created outside this county, there is no reason one of these super rarities couldn't surpass the record for the 1933 $20.

[Alex in PA.]

1 hour ago, Moxie15 said:

a couple of retired players holding up the items and very low key. 

Now I get it.  So, it really wasn't a Charitable Event it was a bunch of has beens seeing how much cash they can pocket.    

[MarkFeld]

7 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

Article should read: Jeff Garrett: The World's Most Valuable US Coin

There are many world coins that have sold for $1M+ and with the extreme wealth being created outside this county, there is no reason one of these super rarities couldn't surpass the record for the 1933 $20.

But how many of those $1M+ world coins have sold for "even" $10M? And regardless of the answer, unless or until one of them exceeds the price paid for the 1933 Saint, I think it's fair to label it as "the most valuable coin."

[VKurtB]

35 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

Article should read: Jeff Garrett: The World's Most Valuable US Coin

There are many world coins that have sold for $1M+ and with the extreme wealth being created outside this county, there is no reason one of these super rarities couldn't surpass the record for the 1933 $20.

But ironically, coins from other nations never seem to hit the prices U.S. ultra-rarities do. There are quite a few utterly unique British coins that don't get even sort of close. I attribute it to something Americans do better than anyone else - "pump and dump", aka "marketing".

[Henri Charriere]

5 hours ago, Moxie15 said:

ex·pen·sive

/ikˈspensiv/

Learn to pronounce

 

adjective

 

1. costing a lot of money.

   "keeping a horse is expensive"

    

    

   val·u·a·ble

   /ˈvaly(o͞o)əb(ə)l/

   Learn to pronounce

    

   adjective

    

   1. worth a great deal of money.

      "a valuable antique"

       

       

       

       

       

   noun

    

   1. a thing that is of great worth, especially a small item of personal property.

      "put all your valuables in the hotel safe"

       

       

According to a source in Google, "the name Moxie is a girl's name of English origin meaning 'aggressive energy, know how.' " It is also a carbonated soft drink sold by a bottler in Boston.

I say President Bew-CAN-non.  A fellow Mississippi roommate laughed and said, it's BUCK-cannon. When I made a reference to a Gulf Coast town, Pass Chris-chien, he corrected me saying, it's Pass Chris-she-ANN.

I don't know what prompted you to provide a lesson in pronunciation, but believe regional dialects should be respected. How would anyone who hasn't been in the military know boatswain is correctly pronounced "BO s'n," or that forecastle is "FOLK s'l"?   I have never heard the original and accepted pronunciations of "suit" pronounced correctly.  But I always defer to locals. That means Saint Louis and not Sain'Looey.

I thank the OP for her forebearance.

[World Colonial]

10 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

But ironically, coins from other nations never seem to hit the prices U.S. ultra-rarities do. There are quite a few utterly unique British coins that don't get even sort of close. I attribute it to something Americans do better than anyone else - "pump and dump", aka "marketing".

It's been this way for well over half a century, at least.  The number of MM+ world coins has increased noticeably (proportionately) to my knowledge in recent years but now instead of US coins presenting 90 of the top 100, maybe it's 80 or near it

The last time I checked, there were 91 US coins valued at over $1MM, excluding die varieties.

[VKurtB]

16 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

It's been this way for well over half a century, at least.  The number of MM+ world coins has increased noticeably (proportionately) to my knowledge in recent years but now instead of US coins presenting 90 of the top 100, maybe it's 80 or near it

The last time I checked, there were 91 US coins valued at over $1MM, excluding die varieties.

The new MegaRed is out. They publish it too.

[RWB]

46 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

I attribute it to something Americans do better than anyone else - "pump and dump"

Ahhhh...you've never seen a Chinese merchant in full form.

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, RWB said:

Ahhhh...you've never seen a Chinese merchant in full form.

I would like to take credit for the above quote but cannot

[Moxie15]

5 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

According to a source in Google, "the name Moxie is a girl's name of English origin meaning 'aggressive energy, know how.' " It is also a carbonated soft drink sold by a bottler in Boston.

I say President Bew-CAN-non.  A fellow Mississippi roommate laughed and said, it's BUCK-cannon. When I made a reference to a Gulf Coast town, Pass Chris-chien, he corrected me saying, it's Pass Chris-she-ANN.

I don't know what prompted you to provide a lesson in pronunciation, but believe regional dialects should be respected. How would anyone who hasn't been in the military know boatswain is correctly pronounced "BO s'n," or that forecastle is "FOLK s'l"?   I have never heard the original and accepted pronunciations of "suit" pronounced correctly.  But I always defer to locals. That means Saint Louis and not Sain'Looey.

I thank the OP for her forebearance.

wow Quint, you missed that one.

And yes Moxie is an old English girl's name and a soda, it was also my dog 

my post was about definition not pronunciation. 

[Henri Charriere]

43 minutes ago, Moxie15 said:

wow Quint, you missed that one.

And yes Moxie is an old English girl's name and a soda, it was also my dog 

my post was about definition not pronunciation. 

My profuse apologies...

[GoldFinger1969]

10 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

But how many of those $1M+ world coins have sold for "even" $10M? And regardless of the answer, unless or until one of them exceeds the price paid for the 1933 Saint, I think it's fair to label it as "the most valuable coin."

It's also got a great backstory which adds to the allure, IMO.

These other coins, you have to be a numismatist or close follower to understand the appeal, rarity, etc......with the 1933 Saint, everybody kind of knows the story about how most were melted and the "theft" and subsequent legalizing of the 1 coin.

[World Colonial]

22 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's also got a great backstory which adds to the allure, IMO.

These other coins, you have to be a numismatist or close follower to understand the appeal, rarity, etc......with the 1933 Saint, everybody kind of knows the story about how most were melted and the "theft" and subsequent legalizing of the 1 coin.

It's accurate that more recently, US collectors became more familiar with the circumstances surrounding these coins (some of it probably fiction but that's even better).  More recently being around 2002 when it last sold.  Prior to that, I'd rate it as predominantly just another entry in the Red Book to most US collectors, though not to those who could have bought it.

With the world coinage, it's predominantly only known by collectors where it originates, by relatively few collectors in the US, and on occasion, elsewhere. 

As an example, probably just about every South African coin collector is familiar with the origin of the Veld pond (a low mintage but available coin) or the 1898 "Single 9" pond (a unique "pattern" and their equivalent to any coin like the US 1933 DE).  Almost no one else has ever heard of either, just as coin collectors outside the US have mostly never heard of the 1933 DE, contrary to the sentiments you'll read in the US numismatic press and US coin forums.

The difference is that the US is the largest coin market (larger than all others combined by "market value"), is more financialized than any coin market, and has an outsized number of highly affluent buyers (relative to elsewhere) who have a history of paying higher prices.  Concurrently, since most collectors have a demonstrated preference for coins from their own country, that's why US collectors will pay current prices for US coinage but almost never from anywhere else.

Edited July 2, 2021 by World Colonial

[GoldFinger1969]

5 hours ago, World Colonial said:

The difference is that the US is the largest coin market (larger than all others combined by "market value"), is more financialized than any coin market, and has an outsized number of highly affluent buyers (relative to elsewhere) who have a history of paying higher prices.  Concurrently, since most collectors have a demonstrated preference for coins from their own country, that's why US collectors will pay current prices for US coinage but almost never from anywhere else.

Also.....the U.S. dominated the global financial system from the late-1800's through the end of the Gold Standard.  And U.S. Double Eagles -- Liberty's and Saints -- were the workhorses of the global gold financial system.

As we have learned from these Forums and Roger's book (among others)....99.9% of every year's production was used to settle trade and commerce dealings.  So you would expect there to be a greater familiarity with American gold coins among some foreigners (at least the propertied and wealthy or upper classes) than even among Americans -- with their bankruptcies and financial panics and currency debasements, they were more likely to hold U.S. gold coins than Americans themselves.

[VKurtB]

On 6/30/2021 at 12:55 PM, RWB said:

Ahhhh...you've never seen a Chinese merchant in full form.

True, and I spend much of my life actively evading such an experience, too.

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

.99.9% of every year's production was used to settle trade and commerce dealings.  So you would expect there to be a greater familiarity with American gold coins among some foreigners (at least the propertied and wealthy or upper classes) than even among Americans -- with their bankruptcies and financial panics and currency debasements, they were more likely to hold U.S. gold coins than Americans themselves.

That was then and this is now.  I don't know how much familiarity those living outside the US have with classic gold coinage but I would infer "not much".  It seems to have ended up mostly in bank reserves from what I know, or maybe a few safe deposit boxes among the wealthy.

[GoldFinger1969]

3 hours ago, World Colonial said:

That was then and this is now.  I don't know how much familiarity those living outside the US have with classic gold coinage but I would infer "not much".  It seems to have ended up mostly in bank reserves from what I know, or maybe a few safe deposit boxes among the wealthy.

Could also be the source of the hoards we got from Central and South America in the decades after WW II.