CAC coins will now be recognized in the NGC registry with bonus points. 1 1

[Hoghead515]

I got to looking and I already had 48D In my collection. I ended up getting a real deal on a beautiful, lustrous 1936 ms66. I'm gonna get skint soon as the boss finds out but I couldn't pass it up. I'd probably never find one like that again that cheap. Reputable dealer also. That will take care of one of my earlier dates. Seems like the ones in the thirties are hard to find in ms66 for under $80. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:04 PM, Woods020 said:

I trust TPGs and CAC much more than my grading skills certainly, but I’ve looked at a few recently that I don’t see how they made the grade and they have a green bean. I’m sure it’s my skills but it makes me wonder sometimes. If you legitimately take the time to compare like coins with like grades and compare to auction results it’s mind boggling in the differences. 

There are klunkers out there by the TPGs, less so (IMO) CAC.

But they are out there, in these forums as well as ATS.  Check out the classic "Franklin Gradeflation" thread over at CU...just really need to read the first 2 pages.  Fascinating........
 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

15 hours ago, Revenant said:

I don't like this. But it doesn't matter to me.

What I collect (mostly NCLT, low premium world gold, and hyperinflation currency) doesn't really get stickered - there's no value in it. If others want to throw money away by starting to sticker these things let them. I'm not going to do it. I win two categories now mostly because I have no competition or no serious competition. I just don't play in that part of the pool. 

You very likely receive more pleasure from your collection than any deep-pocket, sticker-infused person. Good for you!

[Woods020]

Not to derail your thread, but a related question I’m pretty sure I already know the answer to. Is there any way to determine by TPG number if a coin has been to CAC and did not get stickered? I’ve looked for ways and have searched Cert numbers on CACs website of coins that I think would go to CAC but have no sticker to see if the Cert came back as failed with no luck. Just so I make double sure I’m not missing something does anyone know a way to check this? This could effect the value of a coin largely I think. 

[GoldFinger1969]

9 minutes ago, Woods020 said:

 Is there any way to determine by TPG number if a coin has been to CAC and did not get stickered? 

Nope, I asked that too.  No way to check prior sending of a coin and failure to CAC. 

[Coagman]

14 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

One part of this subject that has not been discussed is how many points are we talking about for each bean.  I did not see anything in the announcement to indicate how many points will be given for each bean.  If its only a few points say 5 and 10 respectively then this will mostly amount to nothing.   However if it turns out to be say 50 or more that could add up rather quickly.

I was curious about this too.  I emailed this question to NGC a couple of days ago, but haven’t yet received a response. 

My question was how will the green sticker premium be determined?  Will it be a percentage of the coin’s score or is it somehow related to the score of the coin in the next grade up? 

Also, will both NGC and PCGS coins be eligible for the CAC sticker bonus?  I assume so, but just wanted to confirm.

[GoldFinger1969]

13 minutes ago, Coagman said:

I was curious about this too.  I emailed this question to NGC a couple of days ago, but haven’t yet received a response.  My question was how will the green sticker premium be determined?  Will it be a percentage of the coin’s score or is it somehow related to the score of the coin in the next grade up?  Also, will both NGC and PCGS coins be eligible for the CAC sticker bonus?  I assume so, but just wanted to confirm.

An MS65-CAC will have to have more points than a MS65 but less than an MS66 -- I would think.

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:12 PM, Walkerfan said:

I don't mind the idea.

My coins will never be ALL CAC but I like getting bonus points for the ones that I DO have.

I don't think that I'll ever be #1, again anyway, in any category, and I'm fine with that. 

I care more about completion and showcasing.  

Surprised that they didn't choose to have a SEPARATE CAC Registry like they do ATS.  

Either way, I'm FINE with it.  

 

I envy you, Walker guy. I am afflicted with a disease for which there is no known cure. Though I rank #1 "over there" for both current and all-time finest and my Rooster series is 100% "complete," I came to the realization it isn't (finer examples have been graded) and never will be.  As long as the possibility exists that a heretofore unknown piece held by someone somewhere, known or unknown,, is sent in for submission and a grade higher than any known example is awarded, I remain locked into a purgatory of my own making.

Now I know how Ali felt when he was dethroned by Frazier, both of whom had never lost a fight.  In coin collecting, you're only as good as your last acquisition. Shackled by this totally illogical and irrational thought, any happiness I have deluded myself into believing I may one day experience, is tentative, illusory and unattainable. 🐓  Terminal Roosteritis.

*******

Edited May 14, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Change in wording.

[Woods020]

50 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

An MS65-CAC will have to have more points than a MS65 but less than an MS66 -- I would think.

Agreed. It has to be. If not we sure have more issues. I’m thinking it has to be similar to * graded coins. It will be interesting if * or CAC carry the same weight or which is more. It’s definitely getting very complex to calculate. 

[Coinbuf]

2 hours ago, Coagman said:

I was curious about this too.  I emailed this question to NGC a couple of days ago, but haven’t yet received a response. 

My question was how will the green sticker premium be determined?  Will it be a percentage of the coin’s score or is it somehow related to the score of the coin in the next grade up? 

Also, will both NGC and PCGS coins be eligible for the CAC sticker bonus?  I assume so, but just wanted to confirm.

It seems quite a task indeed to find an equitable basis to use when awarding the CAC bonus points.  Star or plus values sort of makes sense for the green bean coins but next grade level up for a gold will have bonus points that will be widely varied for each grade and coin type.   I'm hoping that it will be a set amount, say 25 points for a green bean and 50 for a gold; or something similar.   The press release said this goes into effect next Wednesday the 19th of May so I guess we will know for sure in a few days time.

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:23 AM, Cat Bath said:

And now my reaction...

Just deleted my set.

 

What a shame! And I never even got a chance to know what it was you were collecting.  With me you know, what with all the crowing. 🐓 The CACkling, I can do without.

[Woods020]

So what if it’s * and CAC? It still needs to be lower points than the next grade level it would seem. This is an interesting game we play!

[numisport]

On 5/13/2021 at 1:40 PM, Coinbuf said:

Just out of curiosity could you expand on why/how you see this as leveling the playing field.

Okay here is but one glaring example of why some PCGS coins are not competitive as NGC Registry coins. Look at how many Proof 70 Ikes have been graded. Then look at the price drops and how many people have taken the PCGS bath ! NGC understands just how few proof Ikes would qualify for that 70 grade, thus the low pops. My silver Ikes are Pf 69 Star Ultra Cameo and are the earliest strikes with the heaviest contrast. So when I had my registry set competing for a #1 spot, here comes the PCGS Proof 70 DCams (with less contrast and still not perfect coins) that get more points. So why compete if the playing field is not level ?

[Henri Charriere]

Probably not fair to say but comparing one TPGS with another is like comparing apples with oranges.

You are not competing with another company's Set Registry, but one within your own.

And if what I learned in kindergarten is true, I don't know that extrapolation of any kind regarding grading of a coin in a specific series -- though certainly interesting, is compelling enough evidence to have broad implications and general validity when extended to the hobby as a whole.

PROOF:  When either of the top two TPGS provide their respective censuses, they do not recognize the populations of the other. 

[Coinbuf]

2 hours ago, numisport said:

Okay here is but one glaring example of why some PCGS coins are not competitive as NGC Registry coins. Look at how many Proof 70 Ikes have been graded. Then look at the price drops and how many people have taken the PCGS bath ! NGC understands just how few proof Ikes would qualify for that 70 grade, thus the low pops. My silver Ikes are Pf 69 Star Ultra Cameo and are the earliest strikes with the heaviest contrast. So when I had my registry set competing for a #1 spot, here comes the PCGS Proof 70 DCams (with less contrast and still not perfect coins) that get more points. So why compete if the playing field is not level ?

Hmmm well I don't collect Ikes so I'm not up on the pops, however I'm still not clear on how this will level the playing field for Proof ikes.  In reviewing the CAC site I see that CAC does review MS Ikes but I do not see proofs listed in the currently approved list of coins they review, nor did I see any proofs listed in the CAC pop report.  And in order for this to have any possible upside for your coins we would have to assume that if/when CAC chooses to begin reviewing proof ikes that CAC would not sticker any of the PCGS PF70 coins, which seems rather an unlikely expectation.

Also I am wondering if your under the impression that only NGC graded coins will receive the CAC bonus not PCGS graded coins.   While the announcement does not state this one way or another I'm making the assumption that both NGC and PCGS coins will receive the bonus points if CAC beaned.   If you look at the announcement on the home page there is a screen shot that shows how the registry will appear with this new feature and it clearly shows the bean icon next to examples of both NGC and PCGS graded coins.  I'm thinking that this new wrinkle is all part of the changes to the registry as NGC moves forward towards the ANA registry rollout, I do not think that the playing field will be altered in the way that will benefit only NGC graded coins by this change.

[numisport]

On 5/15/2021 at 1:23 PM, Coinbuf said:

Hmmm well I don't collect Ikes so I'm not up on the pops, however I'm still not clear on how this will level the playing field for Proof ikes.  In reviewing the CAC site I see that CAC does review MS Ikes but I do not see proofs listed in the currently approved list of coins they review, nor did I see any proofs listed in the CAC pop report.  And in order for this to have any possible upside for your coins we would have to assume that if/when CAC chooses to begin reviewing proof ikes that CAC would not sticker any of the PCGS PF70 coins, which seems rather an unlikely expectation.

Also I am wondering if your under the impression that only NGC graded coins will receive the CAC bonus not PCGS graded coins.   While the announcement does not state this one way or another I'm making the assumption that both NGC and PCGS coins will receive the bonus points if CAC beaned.   If you look at the announcement on the home page there is a screen shot that shows how the registry will appear with this new feature and it clearly shows the bean icon next to examples of both NGC and PCGS graded coins.  I'm thinking that this new wrinkle is all part of the changes to the registry as NGC moves forward towards the ANA registry rollout, I do not think that the playing field will be altered in the way that will benefit only NGC graded coins by this change.

Sorry to drift away from the original theme but my point was to demonstrate how in some cases (not just proof Ikes) PCGS and NGC coins cannot be judged the same way in registry points so what is the point of allowing them to compete in the same venue. And yes I understand CAC does not evaluate proof Ikes. But seriously remember the 1963 proof Lincoln PCGS graded 70 only to see a spot develop causing a buyback. Common sense tells me that no proof delivered in a pliofilm pack can grade 70, yet they did it.