1913-S Buffalo Nickel - is this worth a reach? 1 1

[Woods020]

I’m working on my type set and have patiently been waiting on a type 1 Buffalo that I really loved. Just such a thing has popped up on heritage, and I just got outbid. I’m curious from others is this one worth the premium based on eye appeal? I love it, but It’s getting overpriced. Would you go $5k with auction fees? Others in 67+ have sold recently for $3840 (NGC graded no cac). 
 

https://coins.ha.com/itm/buffalo-nickels/nickels/1913-s-5c-type-one-ms67-pcgs-cac-pcgs-3917-/a/1329-3295.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited April 14, 2021 by Woods020

[JT2]

I think that is a great price for that coin.  I have seen them wiht toning upwards of 10K+ it al depends on how they face up.  I prefer a little more aqua and rose but she is still a beauty

[Woods020]

Buffalo nickels aren’t a series I know extremely well. 

[Coinbuf]

Its expensive for the type compared to recent auctions at that grade level, cheap for the color.   I cannot tell you if its worth it, I know that for myself I would let it go as I do not pay large premiums for color.   But in this market and timeframe I think that coin will hammer for more than the current bid.

[Morpheus1967]

That's the current bid and there are still 8 days to go in the auction.  I think it will go higher as well.

I know the slab causes some issues with photography, but the colors in the slab photos are nowhere near what the True View images are.    

[Woods020]

I agree. It’s already up since I posted this. I may hang on for a little while longer but at some point soon I’ll call it a day. It’s beautiful but color can only be worth so much....to me anyway 

[RWB]

45 minutes ago, Morpheus1967 said:

I know the slab causes some issues with photography, but the colors in the slab photos are nowhere near what the True View images are.    

The credit line says it's a PCGS photo - so no slab got in the way.

Edited April 14, 2021 by RWB

[Woods020]

Well it’s going to be someone else’s anyway. I ran it up to $6K with buyers premium and I’m bowing out. It’s beautiful but not worth more than that to me. 

[RonnieR131]

I was hoping the best for you. I guess it was best to let it go. That 20% bp really is a pretty big deal at the four and five figure levels, at least to my blue collar way of looking at it. 

[Woods020]

4 minutes ago, ronnie stein said:

I was hoping the best for you. I guess it was best to let it go. That 20% bp really is a pretty big deal at the four and five figure levels, at least to my blue collar way of looking at it. 

I agree. It’s only so pretty haha. Others will come 

[Coinbuf]

In looking at the photos in the auction I am reminded of why I do not trust the PCGS TV.  I have no doubt that in the right light tilted the right way the coin has all the color the TV shows, however in hand and under normal lighting conditions I suspect that it looks much more like the slab shots in the auction.  Sorry that this one did not work out but these come up with some regularity so I'm sure that you will find another "right" one.

[Woods020]

1 hour ago, Coinbuf said:

In looking at the photos in the auction I am reminded of why I do not trust the PCGS TV.  I have no doubt that in the right light tilted the right way the coin has all the color the TV shows, however in hand and under normal lighting conditions I suspect that it looks much more like the slab shots in the auction.  Sorry that this one did not work out but these come up with some regularity so I'm sure that you will find another "right" one.

TV is better than Mint Rod Impact Lighting photography I suppose....

[Coinbuf]

Just now, Woods020 said:

TV is better than Mint Rod Impact Lighting photography I suppose....

I would have to agree 100% there. 

[dollarfan]

4 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

In looking at the photos in the auction I am reminded of why I do not trust the PCGS TV.  I have no doubt that in the right light tilted the right way the coin has all the color the TV shows, however in hand and under normal lighting conditions I suspect that it looks much more like the slab shots in the auction.  Sorry that this one did not work out but these come up with some regularity so I'm sure that you will find another "right" one.

i will have to totally agree.  if i were to buy a coin for its toning, i would want to be able to see it like that in hand with my eyes.  sometimes these camera shots seem to make the coin look like "what it could look like"  versus what it actually looks like.  it seems like alot of the photos are enhanced in some way.

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, dollarfan said:

i will have to totally agree.  if i were to buy a coin for its toning, i would want to be able to see it like that in hand with my eyes.  sometimes these camera shots seem to make the coin look like "what it could look like"  versus what it actually looks like.  it seems like alot of the photos are enhanced in some way.

Yup. Over 25 years in the photo biz tells me to never trust still photos. 

[Morpheus1967]

14 hours ago, RWB said:

The credit line says it's a PCGS photo - so no slab got in the way.

True View images, which the first two are, are taken before they are slabbed.  The second two images, which were taken by Heritage, are slabbed.  Therefore, the slab definitely got in the way.  

[RWB]

...on the second image pair --- but you were referring to the first pair, which are PCGS.

[Woods020]

Honestly I think the two versions of images present both ends of the spectrum. The TV pictures probably make it appear a little better than in hand, but the slab pictures seem washed out. Even the label seems dull and washed out by lighting. In reality in hand it is probably in between. Regardless someone loves it more than I do. 

[Morpheus1967]

4 hours ago, RWB said:

...on the second image pair --- but you were referring to the first pair, which are PCGS.

Not sure where you are getting that.  If you read my post, I said the color in the slab photos (the second pair of images) are nowhere near what the True View images are (the first pair of images):

 

On 4/14/2021 at 2:40 PM, Morpheus1967 said:

That's the current bid and there are still 8 days to go in the auction.  I think it will go higher as well.

I know the slab causes some issues with photography, but the colors in the slab photos are nowhere near what the True View images are.    

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Morpheus1967
Spelling

[Hoghead515]

She's a beautiful coin for sure. Would love to have something like that in my collection. I'm happy for whoever ends up with it. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Hoghead515

[1 3 7]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:32 PM, VKurtB said:

Yup. Over 25 years in the photo biz tells me to never trust still photos. 

I trust every photo ever taken by member Buffalo Head since he was knee-high to a grasshopper.

[Woods020]

This thing is up to $12,600 with premium. Insanity. I laugh at myself pondering on should I go to $5k. Toning has gotten very pricey!

[Coinbuf]

1 minute ago, Woods020 said:

This thing is up to $12,600 with premium. Insanity. I laugh at myself pondering on should I go to $5k. Toning has gotten very pricey!

Wow that is crazy, I was sure it would go more but never thought it would get to this level. 

[Woods020]

Just now, Coinbuf said:

Wow that is crazy, I was sure it would go more but never thought it would get to this level. 

And 5 days to go. Folks get out your toners. Time to sell!

[Coinbuf]

1 minute ago, Woods020 said:

And 5 days to go. Folks get out your toners. Time to sell!

More like time to bake some toners. 

[Coinbuf]

Which is not to insinuate that this one is baked, but there are plenty out there raw and holdered alike.

[Woods020]

8 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

Which is not to insinuate that this one is baked, but there are plenty out there raw and holdered alike.

Agreed. Toning actually worries me. It’s beautiful but I admit I haven’t gotten proficient at telling AT vs NT. I only hope the slabbed ones are NT. But raw ones I avoid because I don’t feel confident and they will sure want a premium. Ironically I bought a raw 1921 Morgan from a guy that was brightly toned for like $25 on a whim. I was worried about it so I decided to throw it in a submission for grading. Just so I could learn from what the answer was. Not that a 21 Morgan is worth grading. Anyway it came back cleaned! I laughed because I was expecting suspicious color or the like, but nope cleaned. I can’t see cleaning through what I’m fairly sure is AT. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Woods020

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

I like the nickel, and I think the tone looks "right", but I am not the pro on the chat forum.  

@Woods020 BTW - I REALLY like that 1883 Seated Dime in your Type Set.  The obverse on that thing is just killer!

Edited April 29, 2021 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[1 3 7]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:32 PM, VKurtB said:

Yup. Over 25 years in the photo biz tells me to never trust still photos. 

Setting:  U.S. District Court (S.D.N.Y.) Participants:  Hon. Edward Weinfeld, USDJ;  Bancroft Littlefield, Jr., ADA;  Witness:  VKurtB (whose photography skills the Hon. Ed Weinfeld has taken judicial notice of)...

ADA:  I am presenting you with a copy of Frame 313 of the Zapruder film. (Gov't Exhibit #137)  can you tell us what you see in your own words.

Witness:  Nothing.

ADA:  Can you surmise what that pink cloud above and to the left of the President's head might be?

WITNESS:  No.  For all I know, it can be a posthumous  observance of Diwali, the Festival of Lights, with the use of colored talcum powder and --

ADA: --  Your Honor, I request the witness be responsive or be declared a hostile witness.

JUDGE:  That won't be necessary.  Counselor, I request you direct your client to answer the question.

 Witness:  This was one of several hundred frames taken from a distance by a hand-held Bell & Howell motion-picture camera operated by an amateur home-movie cameraman.  You have introduced this as evidence of a still photograph. It is nothing of the kind. It is a "freeze-frame" photo taken of an unfolding event in motion.  As a numismatist, I have been trained, and have had enough experience, to distrust the interpretations of anyone, myself included, of what seems to appear in a "still" picture. Consequently, I have no opinion however "obvious" the "evidence" may appear to others whose credentials may very well exceed my own.

ADA:  (exasperated)  The witness is excused.

JUDGE:  You may step down, sir.

*       *       *

 

 

[RWB]

19 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

JUDGE:  You may step down, sir.

JUDGE: The witness will be slowly impaled for obfuscation.