Franklin proof 1 1

[Hoghead515]

I don't have any pictures or anything. Don't even own one of these coins I'm asking about. I was just looking at Franklin proofs. Why is the 1950 proof Franklin so expensive?

Edited March 24, 2021 by Hoghead515

[Lem E]

I would say low mintage of around 51,000 may be a key factor.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Lem E

[Lem E]

I think they also had a lot of trouble with the plastic packaging they came in. Milk spots as well, so a good one is probably hard to find.

[Hoghead515]

I noticed the higher grades are way up there. Some in the 5 figure range. 

[Lem E]

 Better dig you out a little bigger rat hole my friend.

[GoldFinger1969]

11 hours ago, Hoghead515 said:

I noticed the higher grades are way up there. Some in the 5 figure range. 

Prices I believe have been in a decline for years.  Popular with older collectors who first started collecting them when they were kids in the 1950's and 1960's.

Also an informative thread over ATS detailing how Gradeflation and crackouts are ruining some coin types, including the Franklin series.   With 2 grade upgrades when rebsumitted for some people and not others, folks getting upset at losing out on the upgrades (and the higher $$$) and wondering how they didn't get the higher grade(s) when they re-submitted the coins. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[Hoghead515]

7 hours ago, Lem E said:

 Better dig you out a little bigger rat hole my friend.

I believe I'm gonna pass on those for a while. Was just strolling thru Ebay admiring all the coins and dreaming about owning several. 

[RWB]

Grade inflation has ruined some aspects of coin collecting. The instability and false value appreciation are discouraging, and destructive in the long term. (A 1950 Franklin proof should cost about the same as a comparable condition 1942 WL proof....But, then, I don't control the markets.)

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

Grade inflation has ruined some aspects of coin collecting. The instability and false value appreciation are discouraging, and destructive in the long term. (A 1950 Franklin proof should cost about the same as a comparable condition 1942 WL proof....But, then, I don't control the markets.)

Here's the Gradeflation thread on Franklins from CU.  Interesting that alot of the posters there have since been banned.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/937859/rampant-gradeflation-in-franklins-is-why-i-stopped-collecting-the-series

I don't have a single coin so understanding the terminology (FBL, etc.) is new to me but I can see how missing out on 2 grade jumps and seeing your coin go up 10-fold with someone else submitting it could tee off collectors.

[Coinbuf]

Gradeflation is a very real and unfortunate aspect to todays grading room, it has brought about a new distrust of the TPG model and conspiracy theory's from some collectors. 

[Woods020]

Franklin halves are heart breakers. I’m no grading expert regardless, but these will drive you nuts getting them graded. It’s a shoot to say the least. I started on the series and got frustrated so I paused. I think they are fine looking coins but the grading is too erratic. I’ve seen many people say this as well. 

[GoldFinger1969]

17 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

Gradeflation is a very real and unfortunate aspect to todays grading room, it has brought about a new distrust of the TPG model and conspiracy theory's from some collectors. 

In defense of the TPGs, I get the inherent conflict at times between Technical and Market grading.

Still...to see some of the upgrades in that Franklin thread....it's just plain ridiculous.

[Hoghead515]

I hope all coins don't start doing that. Seems like everything I ever find that I'm into greedy people ruins it for me. 

[RWB]

If the condition of any coin is influenced by the perceived market value of the coin, then there is a systemic bias and NO grade is trustworthy.

"Grades" must be determined empirically and no appearance opinion should be tolerated. Those things can be mentioned as observations.

Edited March 24, 2021 by RWB

[Just Bob]

Amen!

[GoldFinger1969]

3 hours ago, Hoghead515 said:

I hope all coins don't start doing that. Seems like everything I ever find that I'm into greedy people ruins it for me. 

Buy what YOU LIKE.....assume it loses 50% or more of it's value (most coins won't, especially gold/silver bullion or quasi-bullion coins).  Then you won't be disappointed.

But yeah....the heavy-hitters who paid Big $$$ for a coin with a very low population census....you see 1 or 2 or 3 new coins show up especially because of grading (as opposed to new coins via hoard)....the fear is that you'll see that every year or every few years.

[GoldFinger1969]

FWIW, I buy mostly Saints, Morgans, gold & silver bullion coins, and modern commemoratives.  I know when I pay a big or huge or astronomical premium to the underlying coins intrinsic/bullion value -- and that can reverse at any time.

Caveat Emptor !!   

In fact, the biggest premium I have ever paid might be from the penny I bought at FUN 2020....paid $25 for a PF or MS68 or something like that...nice red coin, I just wanted a cheap coin to buy on the final Sunday....so I paid maybe 2500x face value which makes my Saint and Morgan purchases look cheap.  

Edited March 24, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

3 hours ago, Hoghead515 said:

I hope all coins don't start doing that. Seems like everything I ever find that I'm into greedy people ruins it for me. 

You look at that nice-looking GSA coin you just bought....NOBODY can ruin the experience of saving up for the coin and the joy of looking at it just as you would a piece of art. 

Or a piece of American history.  

That's what I find so fascinating about classic coins...the stories about them.  The entire Saints story of virtually all of them escaping FDR's melt order and coming back via hoards -- some big, some drips-and-drabs -- from Europe and South/Central America.....amazing.  Much more interesting than if all Americans had just saved a few dozen each.

      

Edited March 24, 2021 by GoldFinger1969