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[Insider]

If the dozen members posting in this part of the NGC forum were to ask one of their friends on another forum to drop in over here and post a discussion (or not) it would double the activity.  This "old girl" is still in bed but she has started to stretch a little in the last two weeks.  I see there are more dots with lightning bolts too.

When I log on to a typical forum, I have around 10 alerts.  Anything over one alert here comes as a surprise. 

[physics-fan3.14]

At the current time, I cannot recommend anyone new post to this forum. 

This forum currently has significant problems. Some of that is due to members who are not conducive to rational thought. Some of that is due to absolutely horrific technology. Some of that is due to a hostile environment. 

Dena's recent warning post was a tiny step in the right direction. 

Activity has picked up - but the vast majority of that action is coming from a few members who post endless inanity and constant drivel. The ignore feature has gone a long way to remedy that for me, but a new member is probably not going to be aware of who they should ignore, or even how to do that. 

Honestly, at the current moment, I'm much more likely to warn members *away* from posting on these forums than to join them. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by physics-fan3.14

[bsshog40]

I hear ya Jason, but we should remember that you will always have that 10% that makes it hard for other people. They eventually get weeded out. I feel the 90% of informative threads that we receive from members makes up for the other. 

[Insider]

5 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

At the current time, I cannot recommend anyone new post to this forum. 

This forum currently has significant problems. Some of that is due to members who are not conducive to rational thought. Some of that is due to absolutely horrific technology. Some of that is due to a hostile environment. 

Dena's recent warning post was a tiny step in the right direction. 

Activity has picked up - but the vast majority of that action is coming from a few members who post endless inanity and constant drivel. The ignore feature has gone a long way to remedy that for me, but a new member is probably not going to be aware of who they should ignore, or even how to do that. 

Honestly, at the current moment, I'm much more likely to warn members *away* from posting on these forums than to join them. 

Sorry you feel that way as you have a lot of followers.  I just read Dena's post (after it garnered several comments) as it was not marked in any special way.  As I wrote before, the moderation on this forum is excellent.  Those seemingly ubiquitous wanna-be moderator members should learn to tune out, ignore, and not engage rather than get themselves all worked up.  Life is too short and we all have a lot to learn on our way to becoming a well-rounded, and informed American citizen and coin collector. 

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

If the dozen members posting in this part of the NGC forum were to ask one of their friends on another forum to drop in over here and post a discussion (or not) it would double the activity.  This "old girl" is still in bed but she has started to stretch a little in the last two weeks.  I see there are more dots with lightning bolts too.

When I log on to a typical forum, I have around 10 alerts.  Anything over one alert here comes as a surprise. 

 I've been posting much more than usual to stir up conversation. I've invited friends to join in and have a few non-controversial threads in progress. I'm seeing members chime in once in a while that haven't been on in a long time. Hopefully this all will continue and increase. A little decorum will go a long way.

I completely gave up on a couple of the threads that went down hill and missed Dena's post - what thread was it in? I'd like to read it. While the threads that I gave up on is a personal choice - I do not believe that honest disagreements are a bad thing - just don't make it personal.

[Insider]

2 minutes ago, Zebo said:

 I've been posting much more than usual to stir up conversation. I've invited friends to join in and have a few non-controversial threads in progress. I'm seeing members chime in once in a while that haven't been on in a long time. Hopefully this all will continue and increase. A little decorum will go a long way.

I completely gave up on a couple of the threads that went down hill and missed Dena's post - what thread was it in? I'd like to read it. While the threads that I gave up on is a personal choice - I do not believe that honest disagreements are a bad thing - just don't make it personal.

It is at the very top of the list of topics.  It is easy to miss UNTIL the replies started.  At the ATS, these posts are old and locked. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Insider

[VKurtB]

Isn’t it by now obvious that “the problem” here is Jason?

Edited October 14, 2020 by VKurtB

[Zebo]

7 minutes ago, Insider said:

It is at the very top of the list of topics.  It is easy to miss UNTIL the replies started.  At the ATS, these posts are old and locked. 

Thanks Skip - I guess looking for it on my tablet using a 14X loupe isn't the right way to go about it. 

[bsshog40]

6 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Isn’t it by now obvious that “the problem” here is Jason?

I've known Jason of these forums for years, long before you came along. Jason has always, that I have seen, contributed to this forum in a positive way. 

[VKurtB]

6 minutes ago, bsshog40 said:

I've known Jason of these forums for years, long before you came along. Jason has always, that I have seen, contributed to this forum in a positive way. 

Really? Read his post above just once more.

[bsshog40]

3 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Really? Read his post above just once more.

Well I try my best not to get into conflict with people behind a keyboard. I do know that if people would treat each other with respect and respect that everyone has different opinions and learn to accept that, then we wouldn't have soo many conflicts on a forum that is based on knowledge and information. 

[VKurtB]

2 minutes ago, bsshog40 said:

Well I try my best not to get into conflict with people behind a keyboard. I do know that if people would treat each other with respect and respect that everyone has different opinions and learn to accept that, then we wouldn't have soo many conflicts on a forum that is based on knowledge and information. 

Jason has been more rude and offensive to me than probably any other poster on any forum, and in this one in particular. I find him as annoying as anyone ever gets.  

[bsshog40]

1 minute ago, VKurtB said:

Jason has been more rude and offensive to me than probably any other poster on any forum, and in this one in particular. I find him as annoying as anyone ever gets.  

Well I have found with some members that the "Ignore" button works very well. Unless you just like reading the abuse! Lol

[VKurtB]

6 minutes ago, bsshog40 said:

Well I have found with some members that the "Ignore" button works very well. Unless you just like reading the abuse! Lol

That’s the difference between you and me. The only people I have ever ignored fell into the “YouTube-inspired newbies who just won’t listen” category. Why? Because there is nothing I can learn from them. I can learn plenty from people with whom I merely disagree, even if it is vehement, but yeah, that doesn’t come without a BP raising price sometimes. 

[physics-fan3.14]

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

 I've been posting much more than usual to stir up conversation. I've invited friends to join in and have a few non-controversial threads in progress. I'm seeing members chime in once in a while that haven't been on in a long time. Hopefully this all will continue and increase. A little decorum will go a long way.

I completely gave up on a couple of the threads that went down hill and missed Dena's post - what thread was it in? I'd like to read it. While the threads that I gave up on is a personal choice - I do not believe that honest disagreements are a bad thing - just don't make it personal.

Dena posted a strongly worded warning here: 

 

This post was necessary after a couple of members started posting Nazi memes. When I asked them to stop, one of the members decided to equate me and a couple other members to the KKK, and starting posting KKK medals and tokens, saying that they perfectly fit my description. These threads have obviously been removed. 

45 minutes ago, bsshog40 said:

I've known Jason of these forums for years, long before you came along. Jason has always, that I have seen, contributed to this forum in a positive way. 

Thanks, Boss. I appreciate your support. Over the years, you've been a consistent, positive voice in this community, and I appreciate that. 

28 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Jason has been more rude and offensive to me than probably any other poster on any forum, and in this one in particular. I find him as annoying as anyone ever gets.  

Dude. You've literally been banned from other forums because your behavior is so offensive. All I've done on this forum is call you out on your nonsense, and publicly call for everyone to ignore you because of it. The fact that not everyone has ignored you, that you still continue to post, and that others respond to you, is one of the reasons this forum is going downhill. I had you on ignore on Cointalk until you were banned, and then you came to infect the only place that wouldn't ban you. Try your schtick on PCGS (if you aren't banned there) and see how long you last. NGC has absolutely the most lax moderation in the history of coin forums. The only reason you aren't banned here is because there is literally no moderation. 

If you find me annoying, can you even comprehend how annoying I find you? Or Quintus Arrius? Or ProfHaroldHill? I'd bet 50% of posts in the past week are from the three of you, and not a single useful thing has been typed between the lot of you. 

[Zebo]

10 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

Dena posted a strongly worded warning here: 

Thanks for the link - I'm hoping more members will start threads and encourage others to join in the conversations.We can all make this forum better for beginners and veterans alike. 

[Insider]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

Isn’t it by now obvious that “the problem” here is Jason?

He is not a problem.  He is a valuable asset to any forum!  Rules are rules.  It's just that we are all human and all of us have personality flaws.  Some folks like to shut down anything that questions their beliefs.  Some folks like to    yet refuse to respond to logical questions.  Some folks are control freaks.  Some wannabe-mod-members enjoy the power trip that goes with reporting posts.  My flaw is that I enjoy being abrasive in a sarcastic way to drive a point.     

[Insider]

THIS: NGC has absolutely the most lax moderation in the history of coin forums.  

That's going to be one reason why this place is going to rise from the dead as it is starting to do.  Now if the "snowflakes" of the progressive left persuasion can learn to use the ignore function and mind their own business...  

 

 

.     

 

[VKurtB]

44 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

Dena posted a strongly worded warning here: 

 

This post was necessary after a couple of members started posting Nazi memes. When I asked them to stop, one of the members decided to equate me and a couple other members to the KKK, and starting posting KKK medals and tokens, saying that they perfectly fit my description. These threads have obviously been removed. 

Thanks, Boss. I appreciate your support. Over the years, you've been a consistent, positive voice in this community, and I appreciate that. 

Dude. You've literally been banned from other forums because your behavior is so offensive. All I've done on this forum is call you out on your nonsense, and publicly call for everyone to ignore you because of it. The fact that not everyone has ignored you, that you still continue to post, and that others respond to you, is one of the reasons this forum is going downhill. I had you on ignore on Cointalk until you were banned, and then you came to infect the only place that wouldn't ban you. Try your schtick on PCGS (if you aren't banned there) and see how long you last. NGC has absolutely the most lax moderation in the history of coin forums. The only reason you aren't banned here is because there is literally no moderation. 

If you find me annoying, can you even comprehend how annoying I find you? Or Quintus Arrius? Or ProfHaroldHill? I'd bet 50% of posts in the past week are from the three of you, and not a single useful thing has been typed between the lot of you. 

I have literally only ever been banned from one forum anywhere of any kind, CoinTalk, the most radically over-moderated forum anywhere on the Internet. I never have even been WARNED anywhere else, including on PCGS, either coin related or not. Not even once did the head moderator at even CoinTalk even start any action against me. Only the rock guy ever did, and GDSMP was too lazy to look into claims further. I had well over 10,000 “likes” on CoinTalk when I was banned  I find that PCGS forum uninteresting because it is so dealer centered. I want an extremely lightly moderated collector centered forum. This is it. I also don’t want or need to be lectured by vanity published authors, but apparently you don’t always get what you want, right?

Edited October 15, 2020 by VKurtB

[physics-fan3.14]

14 minutes ago, Insider said:

It's just that we are all human and all of us have personality flaws.

What?!? I'm human? I thought I was Numismatist... an ascended being floating on the collective knowledge of the metallurgical gods! 

14 minutes ago, Insider said:

Some folks like to shut down anything that questions their beliefs.

I like to think that I like to question anything that questions my beliefs. On an internet forum, that may not always come across in the way that I intended. Some people may find me condescending and arrogant - when my real purpose is just to ask a question and try to learn something. If I'm wrong, I really want to know that I'm wrong - and I want you to explain why I'm wrong. If you can't do that... then of course I'm not going to change my mind! If you try to overwhelm me with credentials, but can't really explain anything relevant to the question at hand.... I'm not going to respect you and I'm not going to change my mind. If you try to overwhelm me with words but don't actually say anything, I'm not inclined to listen. 

In short - I am always learning from people who have something important to teach me. 

14 minutes ago, Insider said:

Some folks like to    yet refuse to respond to logical questions.

Ask me a logical question. I'll give you a logical answer. Now, life might get in the way and I might miss your post. Happens to the best of us. Or, what someone thinks might be a logical question I might not think is worth my time answering, either because the answer is readily available or because I've already answered it a dozen times and google would be faster. Or... as in the case of a couple recent threads, we may disagree on the fundamental basics of the question at hand. 

14 minutes ago, Insider said:

Some folks are control freaks.  Some wannabe-mod-members enjoy the power trip that goes with reporting posts.

I don't usually consider myself a control freak. I will admit a satisfaction when all of MauleMalls recent posts/threads got poofed. He posted Nazi memes and ended up calling me a member of the KKK. That is ridiculously unacceptable, especially when he touted how "untouchable" he was because of his longevity here on the forums. No amount of time makes those sort of posts acceptable. 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by physics-fan3.14

[VKurtB]

5 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

What?!? I'm human? I thought I was Numismatist... an ascended being floating on the collective knowledge of the metallurgical gods! 

I like to think that I like to question anything that questions my beliefs. On an internet forum, that may not always come across in the way that I intended. Some people may find me condescending and arrogant - when my real purpose is just to ask a question and try to learn something. If I'm wrong, I really want to know that I'm wrong - and I want you to explain why I'm wrong. If you can't do that... then of course I'm not going to change my mind! If you try to overwhelm me with credentials, but can't really explain anything relevant to the question at hand.... I'm not going to respect you and I'm not going to change my mind. If you try to overwhelm me with words but don't actually say anything, I'm not inclined to listen. 

In short - I am always learning from people who have something important to teach me. 

Ask me a logical question. I'll give you a logical answer. Now, life might get in the way and I might miss your post. Happens to the best of us. Or, what someone thinks might be a logical question I might not think is worth my time answering, either because the answer is readily available or because I've already answered it a dozen times and google would be faster. 

I don't usually consider myself a control freak. I will admit a satisfaction when all of MauleMalls recent posts/threads got poofed. He posted Nazi memes and ended up calling me a member of the KKK. That is ridiculously unacceptable, especially when he touted how "untouchable" he was because of his longevity here on the forums. No amount of time makes those sort of posts acceptable. 

 

While not endorsing the complained of posts in any way, and your own admission above of being frequently being misunderstood as to your intent, don’t you think some work remains on that? Honestly? I never saw the offensive posts, but if I had, I might have defended you. You clearly are NOT my cup o’ tea, but there are limits.

 

i am in the middle of the process of my 760 mile change of residence, and for days at a time, I am without bandwidth.

Edited October 15, 2020 by VKurtB

[physics-fan3.14]

5 minutes ago, Insider said:

THIS: NGC has absolutely the most lax moderation in the history of coin forums.  

That's going to be one reason why this place is going to rise from the dead as it is starting to do.  Now if the "snowflakes" of the progressive left persuasion can learn to use the ignore function and mind their own business...  

 

 

.     

 

There needs to be a balance between the sometimes-Orwellian moderation of the PCGS forums and the completely wild west lack of moderation on the NGC forums. 

I want to be able to criticize NGC decisions and announcements, as I currently can (but wouldn't on the PCGS forums). 

I don't want to be called a Nazi and KKK for criticizing members of the NGC forum (as I was this weekend). 

 

A properly moderated forum draws the line somewhere in-between. I don't consider myself a snowflake, but when someone starts a thread, calls me out, posts KKK medals, and says that I fit the bill.... I'd say that crosses a line. 

[physics-fan3.14]

1 minute ago, VKurtB said:

While not endorsing the complained of posts in any way, and your own admission above of being frequently being misunderstood as to your intent, don’t you think some work remains on that? Honestly? I never saw the offensive posts, but if I had, I might have defended you. You clearly are NOT my cup o’ tea, but there are limits.

 

i am in the middle of the process of my 760 mile change of residence, and for days at a time, I am without bandwidth.

We are all human. We are all (hopefully) constantly improving. 

The recent controversy involved a member literally posting KKK medals and saying that they were intended for me and a couple of other members. 

I am not, have not, and never will be, involved in that sort of vile organization. 

 

[VKurtB]

7 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

There needs to be a balance between the sometimes-Orwellian moderation of the PCGS forums and the completely wild west lack of moderation on the NGC forums. 

I want to be able to criticize NGC decisions and announcements, as I currently can (but wouldn't on the PCGS forums). 

I don't want to be called a Nazi and KKK for criticizing members of the NGC forum (as I was this weekend). 

 

A properly moderated forum draws the line somewhere in-between. I don't consider myself a snowflake, but when someone starts a thread, calls me out, posts KKK medals, and says that I fit the bill.... I'd say that crosses a line. 

Full disclosure - I own what someone has said is a KKK medal. I don’t know one way or another. Not my bag, and I do end up with lots of random stuff from bulk auction lots. PA medals are a very diverse bunch of stuff.

Edited October 15, 2020 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

By the way - moving one’s life 760 miles while 65 years of age? Not for the feint of heart. Trust me. 

[VKurtB]

By the way, if I thought newbies would actually read them, instead of falling prey to their initial over-enthusiasm, I’d agree that having more newbie specific “stickies” at the top of that forum would be useful. NGC posted several months ago something that should be required reading about errors and video producers and misinformation.

But that’s not reality. People in an enthusiasm induced mania don’t particularly read well. How many 1982-D small date copper threads is enough? After awhile, it gets a little hard to take. I want to require a probability and statistics course for these people. Education (sorry if that sounds like credentialism) matters. Education is all that separates the wheat from the chaff. Educated people’s opinions simply matter more, at least to me.

I am not of the “empiricism” school that Insider prefers. Knowing that something works is insufficient for me. I have to know why or how, or I am dissatisfied.

Edited October 15, 2020 by VKurtB

[bsshog40]

12 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

By the way - moving one’s life 760 miles while 65 years of age? Not for the feint of heart. Trust me. 

I don't care how old you are, I hate moving anytime. Lol 

[VKurtB]

Just now, bsshog40 said:

I don't care how old you are, I hate moving anytime. Lol 

I thought the last one (3 miles) hurt bad. This is just sick.  

[physics-fan3.14]

25 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Full disclosure - I own what someone has said is a KKK medal. I don’t know one way or another. Not my bag, and I do end up with lots of random stuff from bulk auction lots. PA medals are a very diverse bunch of stuff.

Kurt - I've chosen to view a few of your responses to this thread, as others have quoted you and I felt the need to respond. You are still on ignore, of course. 

I have absolutely no problem with people owning KKK items. I have no problem with people owning Nazi items. I am from Charleston, SC, and one of the local collectibles you'll see at shows here are slave tags (basically, IDs to let people know what job a slave was qualified to perform). These are all historical items, and if collected and presented with the proper historical context, I personally don't see any issue in owning them. Not my personal interest, but as I said, I'm from the South so I've seen these items for sale. The historical context is important - obviously, these items are not ok on their own. 

The problem this weekend was that another member accused a few of us of being in the Klan, and posted a series of KKK medals and associated us with them. I personally find this the most vile of accusations, and any member here who would accuse me of being associated with the KKK is absolutely despicable. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by physics-fan3.14

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, bsshog40 said:

I hear ya Jason, but we should remember that you will always have that 10% that makes it hard for other people. They eventually get weeded out. I feel the 90% of informative threads that we receive from members makes up for the other.