FUN Show in January 0

[Insider]

As of now, the show will go on barring any unforeseen changes (increase in virus, FL Governor decree, etc).  Masks will be required, temp taken each time you enter the show, disinfectant at each table, etc. 

Keep your fingers crossed.   Please pass this on to ATS and other forums.

PS  WHO reversed its opinion on Shut down's.  Too bad the damage is already done.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Insider

[MAULEMALL]

1 minute ago, Insider said:

As of now, the show will go on barring any unforeseen changes (increase in virus, FL Governor decree, etc).  Masks will be required, temp taken each time you enter the show, disinfectant at each table, etc. 

Keep your fingers crossed.   Please pass this on to ATS and other forums.

PS  WHO reversed its opinion on Shut down's.  Too bad the damage is already done.

PRC gave them the go ahead

[physics-fan3.14]

I just assumed it would be cancelled so I didn't make plans to attend. 

[Insider]

9 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

I just assumed it would be cancelled so I didn't make plans to attend. 

Too bad.  Air fare and hotel rates down.  

[MAULEMALL]

1 minute ago, Insider said:

Too bad.  Air fare and hotel rates down.  

Dude...Fla... IN JANUARY??

I'm All Over that...

Gonna see deeeeeeenaaaa 

[GoldFinger1969]

On the fence now....if lots of folks here and ATS go, I might head down.

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

PS  WHO reversed its opinion on Shut down's.  Too bad the damage is already done.

What is their current (reversed) opinion? I did not see that.  Thanks

[RWB]

Considering the dogmatic rejection of science by Florida State officials, one should not expect much improvement - if not regression - by January. That approach serves to lengthen the term and spread of the virus, which creates greater harm to businesses and individuals.

[MAULEMALL]

25 minutes ago, Zebo said:

What is their current (reversed) opinion? I did not see that.  Thanks

The WHO REVERSED IT'S LOCKDOWN AND MASK POLICY 

Seems they think it's scientifically detrimental to humans .. Seems FLORIDA WAS WELL AHEAD OF THE WHO..

https://www.dailywire.com/news/who-reverses-course-again-now-condemns-lockdowns-over-economic-consequences

https://fee.org/articles/who-reverses-course-now-advises-against-use-of-punishing-lockdowns/

https://www.neweurope.eu/article/who-reverses-course-praises-lockdown-ignoring-sweden/

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article243347886.html

Edited October 12, 2020 by MAULEMALL

[MAULEMALL]

17 minutes ago, RWB said:

Considering the dogmatic rejection of science by Florida State officials, one should not expect much improvement - if not regression - by January. That approach serves to lengthen the term and spread of the virus, which creates greater harm to businesses and individuals.

 The Science seems to say 100% otherwise.

Fun will be a safe and joyous time

[Insider]

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

What is their current (reversed) opinion? I did not see that.  Thanks

Closing down and confining people to home was not the best choice after all.  Apparently, very many folks get the virus with little effect.  They don't know it unless they are tested.  The folks who are tested fall into two groups have it/had it or virus free.   Of the folks who have it/had it, in this country a small percent of them die (that's unfortunate and thousands have died in this country).   So I don't know the TRUE figures - we will one day but it is similar to this example:

3 million have the virus (tested positive or not tested).  40K died during the time hospitals were being paid to report as many deaths due to the virus as they could - for whatever the reason.   

My chance of catching the virus and surviving it is probably 98%. That's why I made a reservation last Thursday when I found out the show was going to be held.  When I catch it, my chance of dying from it is very slim but many people with this attitude are no longer above ground.  When it is our time...

 

[Coinbuf]

No FUN for me, too far and I hate FL anyway, I hope that Long Beach will be a go next year and If I remember correctly there is supposed to be a show here in AZ in March.

[Insider]

2 hours ago, RWB said:

Considering the dogmatic rejection of science by Florida State officials, one should not expect much improvement - if not regression - by January. That approach serves to lengthen the term and spread of the virus, which creates greater harm to businesses and individuals.

NUTS!  There was no science on the Chinese virus as all the flip flops proved.  We are learning as we go.

BTW, you picked a terrible example to try to make your case.  FL has done EXTREMELY WELL considering most of our population is in the target age.  I'll ask this question again (third time) and we may get more than 4-5 deaths!

Does any member know any one who died from the virus?   Your friend of a friend's auntie's daughter's neighbor's third cousin with diabetes QUALIFIES AS A YES. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Insider

[MAULEMALL]

12 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

No FUN for me, too far and I hate FL anyway, I hope that Long Beach will be a go next year and If I remember correctly there is supposed to be a show here in AZ in March.

After the exodus will long beach be a thing? 

[Insider]

2 hours ago, Insider said:

Closing down and confining people to home was not the best choice after all.  Apparently, very many folks get the virus with little effect.  They don't know it unless they are tested.  The folks who are tested fall into two groups have it/had it or virus free.   Of the folks who have it/had it, in this country a small percent of them die (that's unfortunate and thousands have died in this country).   So I don't know the TRUE figures - we will one day but it is similar to this example:

3 million have the virus (tested positive or not tested).  40K died during the time hospitals were being paid to report as many deaths due to the virus as they could - for whatever the reason.   

My chance of catching the virus and surviving it is probably 98%. That's why I made a reservation last Thursday when I found out the show was going to be held.  When I catch it, my chance of dying from it is very slim but many people with this attitude are no longer above ground.  When it is our time...

 

 

Just heard these figures for FL:  700+ thousand cases, 15K deaths.  That's around 2% which matches the % of deaths I've heard reported all along.  And remember many of the virus deaths were not entirely valid although a death is a death and very final.  

Edited October 13, 2020 by Insider

[GoldFinger1969]

We could have a vaccine in a few months.  Or an effective treatment.  

[Coinbuf]

2 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

After the exodus will long beach be a thing? 

Tough to say, I guess we will find out next year.

[GoldFinger1969]

8 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

Tough to say, I guess we will find out next year.

There's talk of Long Beach not surviving ?

I figured smaller shows and maybe regionals might not make it back...but I thought that The Big Three -- FUN, Long Beach, and ANA/Chicago -- would all make it.  I know Central States has lost lots of attendance and dealers over the years.  That would be the greater threat IMO for the regionals.

Be interesting to see how Bay State and Whitman look in a few years.

 

[Coinbuf]

Actually I think the small shows have the easiest time getting back, LB is an expensive show to put on and needs a significant dealer showing to be viable.  I'm not saying that won't happen in fact I suspect it will but a year off can change things.

[GoldFinger1969]

9 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

Actually I think the small shows have the easiest time getting back, LB is an expensive show to put on and needs a significant dealer showing to be viable.  I'm not saying that won't happen in fact I suspect it will but a year off can change things.

Interesting thought....I guess the overhead and costs/breakevens for a show like the monthly Parsippany NJ show are small compared to the bigger ones like FUN.  I think someone here said that you're out $1,000 with hotel, travel, table fees, etc....before you do 1 single transaction.

[RWB]

4 hours ago, Insider said:

NUTS!  There was no science on the Chinese virus as all the flip flops proved.  We are learning as we go.

BTW, you picked a terrible example to try to make your case.  FL has done EXTREMELY WELL considering most of our population is in the target age.  I'll ask this question again (third time) and we may get more than 4-5 deaths!

Does any member know any one who died from the virus?   Your friend of a friend's auntie's daughter's neighbor's third cousin with diabetes QUALIFIES AS A YES. 

You are looking for excuses to avoid doing what are best practices acknowledged world wide. That is false, foolish, and demonstrates a lack of concern for others. Also, don't bother with the phony "personal freedom" dodge - EVERY right comes with responsibility, and protecting all supersedes your petty and selfish "right" to possibly spread disease. ("Typhoid Mary" couldn't grasp this, either, so you're in deadly infectious company.) The transmission rates reported in parts of Texas last month, for example, were approximately 75% lower in jurisdictions that encouraged distancing, masks, and hand washing -- even for the "unwashed masses." Europe controlled the virus far better than the US as a whole through the same very simple protections.  Similar results are reported by the CDC in parts of FL, GA, AL, CA and other states. In Virginia, the northern counties have consistently had much lower rates of infection than other areas where populations have been less consciousness.

As for so-called "flip flops" that is yet another sign of self-serving ignorance and lack of rational thought. Science, as opposed to "dogma," is built on measurable data. Initial recommendations will normally be less focused and effective than those made after more data is collected and analyzed. After a couple of months (Jan-early Mar) the data from China and other infection loci demonstrated increasing confidence that distance, masks, and hand washing were very effective in reducing (but not totally preventing) community transmission.

The "herd immunity" touted by ignorant dogmatists is not effective except when isolated populations reach approximately 75-80% immunity. For the USA, that's about 272 million who have survived, and 5.5+ million who have died. We've seen the results of lower immunity levels in outbreaks of measles and other "childhood" diseases originating in multiple closed communities where vaccination rates are below 75%; the spread is rapid and easily caught by thousands who were deliberately victimized by anti-vaccine groups.

The kind of perverse stupidity expressed in your post is why there is presently no nation-wide "light at the end of the tunnel" except an approach freight train. The people about to get run over by ignorance and dogma are middle and lower wage people -- the same ones who perform much of the national consumer-goods production, food production and a host of basic necessary services that the rest of us chickens take for granted. These wage earners do not have large stores of cash or assets, and an increasing proportion are running on financial fumes with little hope in sight.

Let's be brutally honest. The economy cannot fully recover until the CoVID-19 virus is under control and states and communities can respond quickly to small outbreaks. No amount of hope, prayer, invocation, promise, dogma or anything else can change that - and unless a very effective vaccine becomes available to a very large part of the population, the most effective means we have to reduce spread are -- now say it all together: "Distance, Mask, and Wash!"

Enough, Insider.

I'm going to wash my hands of this.

Edited October 13, 2020 by RWB

[MAULEMALL]

12 minutes ago, RWB said:

You are looking for excuses to avoid doing what are best practices acknowledged world wide. That is false, foolish, and demonstrates a lack of concern for others. Also, don't bother with the phony "personal freedom" dodge - EVERY right come with responsibility, and protecting all supersedes your petty and selfish "right" to possibly spread disease. The transmission rates reported in parts of Texas last month, for example, were approximately 75% lower in jurisdictions that encouraged distancing, masks, and hand washing -- even for the "unwashed masses." Europe controlled the virus far better than the US as a whole through the same very simple protections.  Similar results are reported by the CDC in parts of FL, GA, AL, CA and other states. In Virginia, the northern counties have consistently had much lower rates of infection than other areas where populations have been less consciousness.

As for so-called "flip flops" that is yet another sign of self-serving ignorance and lack of rational thought. Science, as opposed to "dogma," is built on measurable data. Initial recommendations will normally be less focused and effective than those made after more data is collected and analyzed. After a couple of months (Jan-early Mar) the data from China and other infection loci demonstrated increasing confidence that distance, masks, and hand washing were very effective in reducing (but not totally preventing) community transmission.

The "herd immunity" touted by ignorant dogmatists is not effective except when isolated populations reach approximately 75-80% immunity. For the USA, that's about 272 million who have survived, and 5.5+ million who have died. We've seen the results of lower immunity levels in outbreaks of measles and other "childhood" diseases originating in multiple closed communities where vaccination rates are below 75%; the spread is rapid and easily caught by thousands who were deliberately victimized by anti-vaccine groups.

The kind of perverse stupidity expressed in your post is why there is presently no nation-wide "light at the end of the tunnel" except an approach freight train. The people about to get run over by ignorance and dogma are middle and lower wage people -- the same ones who perform much of the national consumer-goods production, food production and a host of basic necessary services that the rest of us chickens take for granted. These wage earners do not have large stores of cash or assets, and an increasing proportion are running on financial fumes with little hope in sight.

Let's be brutally honest. The economy cannot fully recover until the CoVID-19 virus is under control and states and communities can respond quickly to small outbreaks. No amount of hope, prayer, invocation, promise, dogma or anything else can change that - and unless a very effective vaccine becomes available to a very large part of the population, the most effective means we have to reduce spread are -- now say it all together: "Distance, Mask, and Wash!"

Enough, Insider.

I'm going to wash my hands of this.

just ignored THE WORLD HEALTH ORGs SCIENCE ...

The ones yall claimed was 100% infallible and proof pos that the world was coming to an END... C'mon man.... 

AGAIN... The WHO REVERSED IT'S LOCKDOWN AND MASK POLICY ... ADMITTED THEY WERE WRONG...

Seems they think it's scientifically detrimental to humans .. Seems FLORIDA WAS WELL AHEAD OF THE WHO..

Now it just seems like you have a vendetta against NGCs home turf show.. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/who-reverses-course-again-now-condemns-lockdowns-over-economic-consequences

https://fee.org/articles/who-reverses-course-now-advises-against-use-of-punishing-lockdowns/

https://www.neweurope.eu/article/who-reverses-course-praises-lockdown-ignoring-sweden/

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article243347886.html

[ldhair]

I'm sad to say that I won't make the Fun Show this year. This show has been my only vacation for many years.

My health and the long travel, put me at great risk. I don't see things improving any time soon.  

 

[comicdonna]

I usually get to Florida a little late to attend FUN.  It looks like I will be down there in time this year.  However, if the virus situation doesn't get better, I will not be attending.  

[Crawtomatic]

10 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

just ignored THE WORLD HEALTH ORGs SCIENCE ...

The ones yall claimed was 100% infallible and proof pos that the world was coming to an END... C'mon man.... 

AGAIN... The WHO REVERSED IT'S LOCKDOWN AND MASK POLICY ... ADMITTED THEY WERE WRONG...

 

If you went off the headlines alone I could see that interpretation.  But reading the articles and crosschecking to other sources that's not the same conclusion I come to.

“We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” the group’s envoy, Dr. David Nabarro, told world health leaders and media on Sunday. “The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

There's no mention that they indicate masks are wrong.  I think they're just stating that if you do the lockdown, you should come up with a plan of action and then implement it.  In America we've had a lot of non-compliance with suggested actions (like wearing masks and limiting social gatherings) that works against the plan of action.  Granted, we're a really big country.  Virus spread in all areas aren't the same so a national policy would either come off as heavy-handed or unnecessary in certain areas but well appreciated in hot spots.  So we've had a policy creation process that shifted responsibility down to the state, and even county, level.  But with all the misinformation & different narratives people are either choosing to ignore the directives at their local level or believing the whole thing is blown out of proportion.

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, ldhair said:

I'm sad to say that I won't make the Fun Show this year. This show has been my only vacation for many years.

My health and the long travel, put me at great risk. I don't see things improving any time soon.  

 

I'm strongly leaning to just saving up more $$$ for 2022.  Wouldn't be as much fun without seeing all my friends at CT. 

[Insider]

13 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

We could have a vaccine in a few months.  Or an effective treatment.  

We have several very effective treatments right now.  As for a vaccine, don't hold your breath.

 

BTW, the masks most of us are forced to wear DO NOT KEEP VIRUS PARTICLES OUT!   If the press in this country were doing its job - many things we think we know would be much different.  

Edited October 13, 2020 by Insider

[Moxie15]

i hope those who go have a great time. I have fond memories of the times I went. 

[Crawtomatic]

12 minutes ago, Insider said:

We have several very effective treatments right now.  As for a vaccine, don't hold your breath.

 

BTW, the masks most of us are forced to wear DO NOT KEEP VIRUS PARTICLES OUT!   If the press in this country were doing its job - many things we think we know would be much different.  

It's been 6 months, man.  How have you not heard already that there usage is not to keep particles out of the air you breathe in?  They're to prevent particles from spreading freely from the exhausted breath of a carrier.

Edited October 13, 2020 by CRAWTOMATIC

[brg5658]

18 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

The WHO REVERSED IT'S LOCKDOWN AND MASK POLICY 

Seems they think it's scientifically detrimental to humans .. Seems FLORIDA WAS WELL AHEAD OF THE WHO..

https://www.dailywire.com/news/who-reverses-course-again-now-condemns-lockdowns-over-economic-consequences

https://fee.org/articles/who-reverses-course-now-advises-against-use-of-punishing-lockdowns/

https://www.neweurope.eu/article/who-reverses-course-praises-lockdown-ignoring-sweden/

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article243347886.html

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here, but the WHO advises all persons to wear masks.  The economic lockdown opinion was modified, but that's what intelligent people do - change opinions when presented with evidence to do so.  The problem is that people think masks and social distancing infringe on their personal rights in some way.  Thus, people (particularly in the USA) don't wear masks consistently, and are not practicing social distancing.

The verbatim WHO recommendations are:  

• Maintain at least a 1-metre [~3 feet] distance between yourself and others to reduce your risk of infection when they cough, sneeze or speak. Maintain an even greater distance between yourself and others when indoors. The further away, the better.
• Make wearing a mask a normal part of being around other people.

If you're going to FUN in Florida in January, I'd strongly advise wearing a mask at ALL times.  Not for yourself, but others.  If everyone wears a mask, the spread of COVID-19 is greatly decreased.  

Edited October 13, 2020 by brg5658