GSA Hoard Question/s 0

[pogohatesme]

First off, I want to apologize for the pics. I know they aren't very good and many of you who have read my previous posts know I suck at picture taking. The pics are only for reference.

So anyhow, I had come across articles on the GSA Hoard and cases. From what I have been able to tell, these cases were quite large than the standard NGC cases. Also, from what I have seen, this was the only place these cases were used. 

  Now my questions. Would this be considered a coin from the GSA hoard due to it's case? There is no other documentation. Should there be some sort of identifying marker other than the case style? Does being associated with a particular hoard add any value to an other wise normal coin?

Also I realize my coin if from the SF mint and 95% of the GSA was CC, so I also don't know what if anything that would matter.

[VKurtB]

No, it would be considered a Morgan dollar (probably) in a privately made encasement designed to fool people into believing it's a GSA dollar.

[Greenstang]

Hafta agree with Kurt

That is not GSA holder. Doubt if it is even a GSA Morgan.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Greenstang

[pogohatesme]

Thanks Kurt and Greenstand. That is about what I suspected but wanted to double check. Other than just the style of holder, should there be some sort of marking indicating that it is GSA if it is not graded? 

[VKurtB]

38 minutes ago, pogohatesme said:

Thanks Kurt and Greenstand. That is about what I suspected but wanted to double check. Other than just the style of holder, should there be some sort of marking indicating that it is GSA if it is not graded? 

There is a very well known holder that easily identifies GSA coins. Knowledge is power. When they are graded, merely a sticker is placed on that holder, or rather, around one edge of it.

[pogohatesme]

@VKurtB When looking through the NGC holder types is when I stumbled on the sticker around the GSA holder. Which is where all of this came from. I've had this coin for a couple years now in that holder and never really thought much of it u till I saw that so it just kind of made me wonder. I tried looking around different sites about the GSA hoard and holder and did see some difference in mine which why I didn't figure it was but thought to ask anyhow. Still just trying to grasp a lot of this as I don't want to get snookered.

[VKurtB]

1 minute ago, pogohatesme said:

@VKurtB When looking through the NGC holder types is when I stumbled on the sticker around the GSA holder. Which is where all of this came from. I've had this coin for a couple years now in that holder and never really thought much of it u till I saw that so it just kind of made me wonder. I tried looking around different sites about the GSA hoard and holder and did see some difference in mine which why I didn't figure it was but thought to ask anyhow. Still just trying to grasp a lot of this as I don't want to get snookered.

Good thing, too. A new numismatist in a hurry is an easy "mark". Treat these treasures like "street cars" (Yes, I'm old enough to remember them.). There'll be another one coming along any minute.

[pogohatesme]

Okay, another question. Since this holder has the possibility of being misleading, what would you recommend? Just get a generic air tight and crack it out this one and put in the other? 

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, pogohatesme said:

Okay, another question. Since this holder has the possibility of being misleading, what would you recommend? Just get a generic air tight and crack it out this one and put in the other? 

I always hesitate to give storage advice, because my advice is very different depending on the coin. AirTites are fine for Morgans. I use a lot of E&T Kointain brand Saflips. But I leave mine alone and don’t handle them. The Saflips can crack and expose edges that can scratch your coins if you mess with them too much.

[pogohatesme]

43 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I always hesitate to give storage advice, because my advice is very different depending on the coin. AirTites are fine for Morgans. I use a lot of E&T Kointain brand Saflips. But I leave mine alone and don’t handle them. The Saflips can crack and expose edges that can scratch your coins if you mess with them too much.

I understand and appreciate that. I am just thinking, being novice as I, not wanting to mess with it too much. But at the same time, based off your previous comment ( and my thoughts as well ) that this coins case was done to try and fool someone, I didn't want to leave it like that in the event something were to happen with me.

By the way, this is another one that I received from an ebay coin lot sale someone bought for me a few years back.

[Greenstang]

As there is no value to that aftermarket case, I can't see any harm in taking the Morgan out and putting it in an airtite. It would certainly be much smaller for storing and would eliminate any chance of misrepresenting it.

Spoiler

 

 

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, Greenstang said:

As there is no value to that aftermarket case, I can't see any harm in taking the Morgan out and putting it in an airtite. It would certainly be much smaller for storing and would eliminate any chance of misrepresenting it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

+1

[Conder101]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:50 PM, VKurtB said:

There is a very well known holder that easily identifies GSA coins.

The GSA used four different holder types, three large hard plastic, one small soft plastic.

[pogohatesme]

1 hour ago, Conder101 said:

The GSA used four different holder types, three large hard plastic, one small soft plastic.

I didn't see that there were 3 hard plastic, I only saw one when I tried searching this out. But that is why I posed the question/s. All I saw was the Carson City coins/cases and from what I read 95% did come from there. However that leaves 5% that didn't and I couldn't find any reference to show a list of them all. And then given my case is similar. Just had me wondering. 

[VKurtB]

Stay alert. There are literally Chinese fake GSA coin holders out there. Anything worth owning is being counterfeited by the Chinese in huge numbers. 

[Joyce C Novitzke]

I am a rather new collector of GSA Hoard coins with only two years of experience to date.  I only know of two hard pack cases that the GSA (General Services Administration) sold to the public between 1962-64.  (1) The case that houses the Carson City coins states Carson City on the front of the case above the coin and usually says Uncirculated below the coin.  Some coins were set aside due to various factors and were placed in cases that do not say Uncirculated.  That may be what the other poster referred to as a second case.  (2) The non Carson City coins were placed in a case that states United States above the coin and again Uncirculated (or not)  below the coin.  All of the GSA sale coins were placed in a black box with a seal and "The United States of America" written on the box front. The inside of the box is blue and has a statement written by Richard Nixon inside the cover.  Also included with Carson City Uncirculated GSA coins is a Certificate of Authenticity (COA).  They are individually numbered and the first two digits of the certificate refer to the year of the coin.  I hope you find this helpful.  

[Conder101]

3 hours ago, Joyce C Novitzke said:

I only know of two hard pack cases that the GSA (General Services Administration) sold to the public between 1962-64

Small correction, the GSA sales were 1972 - 1980.  The period up to 1964 was simply the Treasury redeeming silver certificates with silver dollars.  The GSA had nothing to do with that.  After they stopped redeeming for silver dollars they took inventory of what remained and then spent the 1964 to 1970 period trying to decide how to dispose of the remaining coins.  The plan for the GSA sales were what they came up with.  The sales were conducted 1972 - 74 and then discontinued.  The final sale that got rid of the last of them took place in early 1980.

[pogohatesme]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. It is quite informative. However, my initial questions remain. It seems apparent my coin and holder is not a GSA, and that is perfectly fine and acceptable. From the time I received it I never really thought much about it being anything other than a Morgan that someone had stuck into the case it is. But after stumbling onto the GSA deal and seeing those cases ( ie: the CC hard case ) and the similarity to my case it made me wonder. I have since learned that it was very probable that someone made this case with ill intent. Again, not a problem for me as I can always move it out of this case at some point ( I have no intention of getting rid of the coin any time soon).

So if I happen to stumble across something similar again, is there a way to tell? Especially if it is not in the original box, sealed, and or without the COA? Also especially if it is not a Carson City coin.Or would this just be a matter of seeing an authentic case and seeing exactly what it is comprised of and comparing?

Edited July 18, 2020 by pogohatesme

[Greenstang]

Quote

So if I happen to stumble across something similar again, is there a way to tell? Especially if it is not in the original box, sealed, and or without the COA? Also especially if it is not a Carson City coin.Or would this just be a matter of seeing an authentic case and seeing exactly what it is comprised of and comparing?

Just a simple matter of going online to see the different styles. That's wear I found these pictures of the three different holders. Also a picture of the soft case for lower grade Morgans. If it is not in a sealed case or holder, then I don't think there is any way of telling if it is a GSA.

 

[pogohatesme]

@Greenstang I apologize for being dense. I called myself searching before I ever made this post but the only ones I was coming up with was Carson City and the soft pack. I didn't see the others. I searched GSA coin holders, GSA hoard and don't remember what else. Thank you all again.

[GoldFinger1969]

Even if undergraded, original GSA holders are going to be like PCGS and NGC holders from their first few years of operation...worth more in the original holder with a lower grade than being cracked-out and given a higher one. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/17/2020 at 8:34 PM, Joyce C Novitzke said:

I am a rather new collector of GSA Hoard coins with only two years of experience to date. 

How active are you in collecting GSA Morgans ?  Are you active online -- HA, Ebay, GC -- or do you go to shows or look in obscure places like Etsy and Craigslist ?

[GoldFinger1969]

Have GSA Morgans -- CC or non-CC -- seen a spike since 2020 like other moderately-priced coins ?

My guess would be yes, but I'll defer to someone more active in that segment.

[GoldFinger1969]

Super Expensive GSAs:  Just wondering for those of you more familiar with high-end (GSA) Morgans....are there many that sell for 5-figures and up ?

I saw one the other day up for sale and bidding was over $20,000....was just clicking around, trying to re-find it now....I believe it was an MS-67 CAC DMPL coin, not sure what year or if it was CC or not.

Got me wondering what the most expensive GSAs might sell for.

[GoldFinger1969]

GSA HOARD ON TV: I just saw a coinfomercial which was selling the 1881-CC and 1885-CC.....$1,400 solo, $2,500 for both. Brilliant Uncirculated condition (but no TPG grade).

I believe the plastic said UNCIRCULATED DOLLAR.

Isn't that a bit steep for ungraded Carson City GSA non-rarities ?

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 12/31/2022 at 10:39 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

GSA HOARD ON TV: I just saw a coinfomercial which was selling the 1881-CC and 1885-CC.....$1,400 solo, $2,500 for both. Brilliant Uncirculated condition (but no TPG grade).

I believe the plastic said UNCIRCULATED DOLLAR.

Isn't that a bit steep for ungraded Carson City GSA non-rarities ?

Sure seems salty when an '84-CC, NGC MS64* is being offered here on the marketplace for $700. Not sure if that's apples to apples though.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:56 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Sure seems salty when an '84-CC, NGC MS64* is being offered here on the marketplace for $700. Not sure if that's apples to apples though.

If they are ungraded, they're probably MS60-62, say the experts.  No savvy dealer would sell them ungraded if they thought they had a Gem Quality coin.  Evn an MS-64.

I knew it was overpriced, just wondering by how much.  Usually, I see coins offered for about 25-30% above FMV.

Edited January 1, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[J P M]

On 12/31/2022 at 10:34 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If they are ungraded, they're probably MS60-62, say the experts.  No savvy dealer would sell them ungraded if they thought they had a Gem Quality coin.  Evn an MS-64.

I knew it was overpriced, just wondering by how much.  Usually, I see coinf offered for about 25-30% above FMV.

You also have to be careful with a graded GSA to read the label. I have see some GSA coins with a NGC wrap not sure of the exact wording  but it says something like The NGC guaranty does not apply to this item. I was puzzled when I saw what it said. Kinda like they looked at it but did not want to stand behind the coin. That coin was selling for a lower price than ones with a guaranteed label and I thought it was still to high. GSA coins are just that special extra that people just have to have. I think the lowest GSA I have seen was around $250.     

[Sandon]

On 12/31/2022 at 10:34 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If they are ungraded, they're probably MS60-62, say the experts.  No savvy dealer would sell them ungraded if they thought they had a Gem Quality coin.  Evn an MS-64.

  Only a small percentage of "CC" dollars in GSA holders have been submitted to the grading services. Check the population data for ANACS, NGC and PCGS versus the numbers sold of these coins for each date, including the "mixed years" coins--the ones in the cases that don't include the word "UNCIRCULATED"--some of which were culled out due to "tarnish", which in many cases today is viewed as desirable (to some) "toning".  Many GSA "CC" dollars (hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million or more) are probably still held by members of the general public who bought them from the government sales c. 1972-1980 or their heirs or by collectors who bought them uncertified years ago and who aren't interested in the hassle and expense of submitting them to grading services.  Many of the uncertified coins are "baggy", but there are probably still a fair number of pieces that would grade MS 64 or higher among the uncertified coins.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/1/2023 at 5:11 PM, Sandon said:

  Only a small percentage of "CC" dollars in GSA holders have been submitted to the grading services. Check the population data for ANACS, NGC and PCGS versus the numbers sold of these coins for each date, including the "mixed years" coins--the ones in the cases that don't include the word "UNCIRCULATED"--some of which were culled out due to "tarnish", which in many cases today is viewed as desirable (to some) "toning".  Many GSA "CC" dollars (hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million or more) are probably still held by members of the general public who bought them from the government sales c. 1972-1980 or their heirs or by collectors who bought them uncertified years ago and who aren't interested in the hassle and expense of submitting them to grading services.  Many of the uncertified coins are "baggy", but there are probably still a fair number of pieces that would grade MS 64 or higher among the uncertified coins.  

That's a real good point, Sandon ....it's easy to assume with 35 years of TPGs behind us that most GSA pieces would have been submitted by now but the numbers say otherwise.  Great catch.

Had to be hundreds of thousands of people who bought them....even if only TENS of thousands of them still have them in attics or buried with other junk.....you could be looking at 50,000 - 250,000 of these things ungraded.

I wonder if the dealers and investors active in buying/collecting realize that we could have YEARS of these things hitting the market in a few years, if not now ?   As these were purchased in the 1972-1980 time frame, you can expect to see them hit the market probably in the 2020-2035 time frame (when original buyers or inheritors from elderly parents) pass on.

I haven't seen ANYTHING regarding this hidden domestic hoard and potential supply.  Anybody else ?  

Edited January 2, 2023 by GoldFinger1969