Saw this while watching RCTV and wanted to share it with the board. 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:25 PM, VKurtB said:

HE wasn’t present and he hasn’t seen a sheet on it in some NARA. 

🐓:  NASA?  What's NASA got to do with it?  This is an outrage! 

VKB:  Not NASA, NARA, the National Archives. C'mon, Quintus!

🐓:  NARA?... Never mind... carry on. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:02 AM, Jason Abshier said:

They ain’t different than the PCGS cult followers and preachers who pass out the “mind controlling kool-aid” to the newer collectors getting into the collecting  hobby 

[Water did taste funny. I thought it was chromium-6]  🐓

[Mr.Bill347]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:19 PM, numisport said:

Really what kind of dealer would sell you a fake 2009 Proof ASE ?

I am sorry I was resting on the couch when I wrote the response. It was a 1998 Proof ASE and it was an ANA dealer. My mistake I forgot which year it was. 

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/15/2021 at 4:51 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Water did taste funny. I thought it was chromium-6]  🐓

More like the watered down version of 1978 Jimmy Jone’s kool-aid … 

[Modwriter]

FMV....

[VKurtB]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:51 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Water did taste funny. I thought it was chromium-6]  🐓

Grape Kool-Aid AND hexavalent chromium. It makes the grape linger longer on the palate. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/15/2021 at 4:41 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

I am sorry I was resting on the couch when I wrote the response. It was a 1998 Proof ASE and it was an ANA dealer. My mistake I forgot which year it was. 

@RWB‘s all time bestest buddy in Colorado made some 2009 ASE proofs. It caused quite a stir, as I remember it.

[VKurtB]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:44 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

🐓:  NASA?  What's NASA got to do with it?  This is an outrage! 

VKB:  Not NASA, NARA, the National Archives. C'mon, Quintus!

🐓:  NARA?... Never mind... carry on. 

NASA be here in Northern Alabama (Goddard SFC), NARA be where Roger gets paper cuts.

[numisport]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:13 PM, Jason Abshier said:

We all seen the dealers on tv trying to sell a gold coin when we know it’s more like “gold plated” a worthless coin only meant for a collector to put in a small glass box on his table as a reminder how his beloved wife got ripped off by a TV coin dealer trying to impress him with a so called “if its to good to be true it must be deal” … there are fakes floating around everywhere even on bourse floor at coin show not all dealers are skillful at spotting fakes they are human just like me and you (although we share in common we hate fakes !) 

don’t laugh I once got stopped outside a pawn shop after I was snooping around for coins back in 2009-2010 I didn’t buy anything that day but I was stopped while walking down sidewalk from the pen shop by a hustler trying to sell me gold buffalos that were looked to be gold plated they looked so bad ! He was asking for $1,100 each . Even a blind man could of seen they were fake knock offs with a plating job ! I told him sell them in the pawn shop see what owner says . He gave me a dirty look 

No he said an ANA dealer he evidently trusted sold him a 2009 proof ASE for 40 bucks. Problem is the U.S. Mint didn't make any.

[numisport]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:41 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

I am sorry I was resting on the couch when I wrote the response. It was a 1998 Proof ASE and it was an ANA dealer. My mistake I forgot which year it was. 

That's a pretty good deal

[GoldFinger1969]

SEATED LIBERTY HALF DOLLARS:   I caught a few seconds of an RCTV infomercial Saturday during one of the dead time slots and they were hawking SS Republic Shipwreck Liberty Half Dollars:  1854-O thru 1859-O with the exception of the 1857-O (rare date ?).

They wanted $2,500 in 2 payments.  How much of a premium over market is that ?

 

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:52 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

SEATED LIBERTY HALF DOLLARS: 

They wanted $2,500 in 2 payments.  How much of a premium over market is that ?

 

In other words, FOUR YEARS' rent in subsidized senior housing in New York City!  That's a no-brainer (and good thing Roosters weren't around back then).

[zadok]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:52 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

SEATED LIBERTY HALF DOLLARS:   I caught a few seconds of an RCTV infomercial Saturday during one of the dead time slots and they were hawking SS Republic Shipwreck Liberty Half Dollars:  1854-O thru 1859-O with the exception of the 1857-O (rare date ?).

They wanted $2,500 in 2 payments.  How much of a premium over market is that ?

 

500-600%

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:58 PM, zadok said:

500-600%

That may very well be so, but these coins had to be retrieved and conserved. If you are a collector in the market for a "hook," i.e., something with an interesting historical slant for your collection, welcome to the world of shipwreck coins.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:58 PM, zadok said:

500-600%

You sure ?  I know the markup on Morgans and Saints and Liberty's was about 30%.  Maybe the grade was such that the coins were worth more, I didn't stick around to find out.

[VKurtB]

On 8/13/2021 at 12:56 PM, RWB said:

These statements are not provable.

If you knew the history of this bag, you wouldn’t say that, Roger. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:13 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

That may very well be so, but these coins had to be retrieved and conserved. If you are a collector in the market for a "hook," i.e., something with an interesting historical slant for your collection, welcome to the world of shipwreck coins.  

Good point...now that I think about it, the SSCA stuff sold at 500-600% premiums.

But that was a well-publicized shipwreck for valuable gold coins....these are much more plentiful I believe (any SLQ experts here ?) so I wonder about the markup.

[Henri Charriere]

There are people looking for coins, but make it very clear they are not interested in those that came from shipwrecks for that very reason: huge price markups. Shipwreck salvage entails risk. And, though I bemoan his fate, I feel Tommy Thompson (SSCA) totally ruined a perfect fairy tale ending by depriving his supporters a fair share of their outlays. Whomever is right or wrong, there are a lot of angry people out there. At least with Bernie Madoff, enough people were able to recover their initial investments. The SSCA recovery was meticulously documented. It's too bad @Hoghead515 wasn't in charge. I trust him implicitly solely on the strength of what he's written.  It's very sad so many invested so much and had to walk away with nothing. This has been going on for 30 years!

[zadok]

On 7/17/2022 at 11:41 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You sure ?  I know the markup on Morgans and Saints and Liberty's was about 30%.  Maybe the grade was such that the coins were worth more, I didn't stick around to find out.

...yep for the dates u mentioned routinely sell in the $900 range or less....

[zadok]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:13 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

That may very well be so, but these coins had to be retrieved and conserved. If you are a collector in the market for a "hook," i.e., something with an interesting historical slant for your collection, welcome to the world of shipwreck coins.  

...abundance out there not rare for those dates n most extremely unattractive...welcome to the world of hype....

[zadok]

On 7/18/2022 at 10:57 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Good point...now that I think about it, the SSCA stuff sold at 500-600% premiums.

But that was a well-publicized shipwreck for valuable gold coins....these are much more plentiful I believe (any SLQ experts here ?) so I wonder about the markup.

...SLQ? or SLH?....big diff....

[zadok]

On 7/18/2022 at 11:14 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

There are people looking for coins, but make it very clear they are not interested in those that came from shipwrecks for that very reason: huge price markups. Shipwreck salvage entails risk. And, though I bemoan his fate, I feel Tommy Thompson (SSCA) totally ruined a perfect fairy tale ending by depriving his supporters a fair share of their outlays. Whomever is right or wrong, there are a lot of angry people out there. At least with Bernie Madoff, enough people were able to recover their initial investments. The SSCA recovery was meticulously documented. It's too bad @Hoghead515 wasn't in charge. I trust him implicitly solely on the strength of what he's written.  It's very sad so many invested so much and had to walk away with nothing. This has been going on for 30 years!

...HH would have gone for the catfish, they r edible...hes no dummy....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:01 PM, zadok said:

...SLQ? or SLH?....big diff....

Sorry guys, the word SEATED was blotted by a Closed Capitioning box but I see now it's Seated Liberty Half Dollars.  I saw the "S" and assumed Standing coins. 

5 Coin Set.....1854-O thru 1859-O but no 1857-O.

Don't have grades for the coins (I assume they aren't raw)....I'll see if I can find the grade on the RCTV website.

[GoldFinger1969]

2009 MMIX Ultra High Relief:  RCTV was running a promo on the 2009 UHR Saint-Gaudens replica and emphasizing the dual planchet thickness.  They also used the phrase "renaissance of American coinage."

Not sure if it is a new or dated infomercial but they could probably just "remove" the old price logos if it ran a long time ago.  With gold just under $2,400 old prices would be way too stale.  

Nonetheless....the asking price of $4,700 for an MS-70 was WAY too high.  Recent sales prices are in the $2,800 range; even the MS-70PL designation would run you UNDER $3,500.  So you are paying a rich premium for their telling of a good story, most of which is in any good book about the MCMVII UHR.

I'm glad these infomercials have nice information; if they get people into the hobby or an appreciation for our coin heritage, overpaying once or twice isn't the worst thing in the world.  I just wish the prices being advertised were a bit closer to the market.

[RWB]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:25 PM, VKurtB said:

HE wasn’t present and he hasn’t seen a sheet on it in some NARA. 

As is often the case VKurtB's ignorance and arrogance are at the forefront. I have examined all of the tags, seals, bag, and done the research that NGC clearly did not do. (The "escape clause" for a TPG as it is for VKurt'BS' is "opinion.")

My comment: "The materials available do not support the descriptions. Ask the TPG to show you copies of all the tags, seals, etc. Then, go do some original research."

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Sometimes on these things....you have to make a leap of faith.  You know, like Indiana Jones in The Last Crusade !! 

[RWB]

On 4/28/2024 at 3:50 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Sometimes on these things....you have to make a leap of faith.  You know, like Indiana Jones in The Last Crusade !! 

There's a big difference between "faith" and "fact." My opinion is the faith-based TPG "certification" is not based on facts.

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:31 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

2009 MMIX Ultra High Relief:  RCTV was running a promo on the 2009 UHR Saint-Gaudens replica and emphasizing the dual planchet thickness.....

I'm glad these infomercials have nice information; if they get people into the hobby or an appreciation for our coin heritage, overpaying once or twice isn't the worst thing in the world.  I just wish the prices being advertised were a bit closer to the market.

No!  Stop it!  

F U L L   S T O P ! ! !  

(Is this thing on???)

Give me a break with "nice information" or "an appreciation for our coin heritage... and the very worst thing I thought I would ever have the great misfortune of seeing in print:  

".... overpaying isn't the worst thing in the world."

ARE YOU MESHUGGAH ?

Have not you ever heard of "price goughing"?  IT IS A CRIME!

I don't care about this giving a hobby hobbling along a shot in the arm by any means necessary. Not by hook or crook!  Only fair and square.  Prevailing FMV, whatever.  I couldn't care less about the costs related to running the infomercial. (Matter of fact, they're way to-o-o long to begin with.)  Long after I am gone, I would like the piece of knowing the hobby is robust and above-board in its dealings with the public.

The snake oil salesman and shysters can find something else to do. I don't ever want to hear that the hobby I spent practically my whole life in, stooped to the level of the various Public Administrators of the City of New York: those public servants charged with the responsibility of seeing to it any of a decedent's survivors are diligently tracked down to the four corners of the earth to insure equitable distribution of all their personal possessions and property, only to skip the investigative stage to line their pockets. 

 

Edited April 30 by Henri Charriere
Add fuel to the flame.

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/28/2024 at 2:47 PM, RWB said:

As is often the case VKurtB's ignorance and arrogance are at the forefront. I have examined all of the tags, seals, bag, and done the research that NGC clearly did not do. (The "escape clause" for a TPG as it is for VKurt'BS' is "opinion.")

My comment: "The materials available do not support the descriptions. Ask the TPG to show you copies of all the tags, seals, etc. Then, go do some original research."

 

The second most outrageous comment I have ever made is the one I am about to make now:  In the absence of evidence of obvious chicanery -- and being  brought up to question everything -- I have little choice but to gravitate to RWB's camp.

For example, what hidden motive or axe to grind would he have for simply stating, "the materials available do not support the descriptions." ?

Everyone in Dealey Plaza that November day is entitled to say, "I was there. I saw everything."  And yet, eyewitness testimony has been challenged and, in recent years, found to be unreliable.  Survivors have stepped forward and claimed: "It's him!  I won't forget his face for as long as Iive." That is, until the DNA evidence is introduced.

I have read our Grand Master's writings for years now. I waver now and then, but am not in a position to dissect his methodology. Accordingly, I give him the benefit of the doubt.  I seriously doubt anyone would have a motive for seeking to pay him for a contrarion opinion.  To the contrary, his views delivered with complete confidence, if anything, inspires further consideration. I also do not believe the honorarium, "Numismatist of the Year," is bestowed lightly.

[zadok]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:54 PM, Henri Charriere said:

The second most outrageous comment I have ever made is the one I am about to make now:  In the absence of evidence of obvious chicanery -- and being  brought up to question everything -- I have little choice but to gravitate to RWB's camp.

For example, what hidden motive or axe to grind would he have for simply stating, "the materials available do not support the descriptions." ?

Everyone in Dealey Plaza that November day is entitled to say, "I was there. I saw everything."  And yet, eyewitness testimony has been challenged and, in recent years, found to be unreliable.  Survivors have stepped forward and claimed: "It's him!  I won't forget his face for as long as Iive." That is, until the DNA evidence is introduced.

I have read our Grand Master's writings for years now. I waver now and then, but am not in a position to dissect his methodology. Accordingly, I give him the benefit of the doubt.  I seriously doubt anyone would have a motive for seeking to pay him for a contrarion opinion.  To the contrary, his views delivered with complete confidence, if anything, inspires further consideration. I also do not believe the honorarium, "Numismatist of the Year," is bestowed lightly.

...to summarize:...poster void of substantiate thought defaulted to obsessive babbling yet again....