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Coins resold soon after initial sale...

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OK, that's a lame topic description so I'll explain.

 

Recently, I've sold a number of coins out of my set or just for quick resale. A couple of these ended up being resold (or attempted to be resold) rather soon after I sold them myself on eBay. I'm trying to figure out WHY and does this kind of thing occur often with other sellers (or dealers). BOTH of the following sold clearly to collectors....

 

Two in particular have ended up with Greattoning recently. One is still for sale and the other lost a good deal of money a couple of weeks ago.

 

Do dealers or other people who've sold to collectors see this kind of thing a lot? OK, I don't mean a coin that was sold to one dealer and then resold retail. The coins above were clearly sold to a collector and both were nice (IMO) so is this a common occurrence? I'm just curious.

 

jom

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OK, that's a lame topic description so I'll explain.

 

Recently, I've sold a number of coins out of my set or just for quick resale. A couple of these ended up being resold (or attempted to be resold) rather soon after I sold them myself on eBay. I'm trying to figure out WHY and does this kind of thing occur often with other sellers (or dealers). BOTH of the following sold clearly to collectors....

 

Two in particular have ended up with Greattoning recently. One is still for sale and the other lost a good deal of money a couple of weeks ago.

 

Do dealers or other people who've sold to collectors see this kind of thing a lot? OK, I don't mean a coin that was sold to one dealer and then resold retail. The coins above were clearly sold to a collector and both were nice (IMO) so is this a common occurrence? I'm just curious.

 

jom

 

 

I once spoke to a very well known dealer who would pay good money for certain coins, then promptly would resell them, often for a substantial loss. I asked, why? He told me that he may loose money on a few coins here and there, but he makes it up on volume.

 

 

TRUTH

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I missed a lincoln cent on heritage acouple of months ago I bid $1010and it sold for $1050,the next week the coin was on GC and I got it for $875. Don't ask me I can't explain it. I have seen several show up on GC right after a Heritage sale.

Wheat

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I missed a lincoln cent on heritage acouple of months ago I bid $1010and it sold for $1050,the next week the coin was on GC and I got it for $875. Don't ask me I can't explain it. I have seen several show up on GC right after a Heritage sale.

Wheat

 

 

Cash flow. Many collectors and dealers live on the perpetual auction cycle, with advances and loans. Once the merry-go-round stops, then they cut the coins loose, often for a loss.

 

 

 

TRUTH

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Two things come to mind. The need for cash flow and the belief that tossing coins up in an auction format through a well known seller will result in moon money.

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If I had many of my eBay coins going back right away, I would look at their auctions closely and compare to mine - pics / time / duration ....

 

To see why they think they can get 20% more to make it worth their time (and eBay/PAYPAL cut)

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It happens all the time and I think that a high percentage of ebay sales take on this form. I see probably 20 to 30% of the coins I sell on Ebay relisted for sale with crazy BINs or consigned to another toned coin seller and frankly I don't care. I think most of the time it's a losing proposition with my auctions but not always. I buy on ebay all the time myself and flip the coins...sometimes I make money and sometimes I don't but in the end I normally make out ahead.

 

What I don't do is say go to a B/S/T post and present myself as a collector buying a coin for my collection and then turn around and flip the coin or coins. That's when I think there is a problem and it's a morality issue but that's jst me.....

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Shane I agree, I have had this happen a few times where I sold coins to a "Collector" and they immediately flipped them for a higher bid. I have an issue as well if they present themselves as a collector wanting the coin to fill a set hole. I have sometimes given them a better price, thinking that they were serious collector's and got bitten. Shame on me I guess, after it happened the first time.

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unfortunately the coin game is capitalism in its rawest form

 

do you know when i can tell a coin buyer/seller/trader/enquirer is lying/not being totally forthright/ with me?

 

when their lips are moving

 

 

are there rare exceptions to the above hm

 

 

of course!! :shy:

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Shane I agree, I have had this happen a few times where I sold coins to a "Collector" and they immediately flipped them for a higher bid.

 

Now that the 2nd occurrence has completed its sale, I can say that two coins which I've sold recently went to auction with GT and both lost money for my original buyer. Both coins sold for less than I sold them for and if you add in all of the fees it isn't a pretty sight.

 

I don't get it. Both were nice coins (IMO) and you'd think they'd be something a collector would want to keep.

 

You never know I guess... (shrug)

 

jom

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unfortunately the coin game is capitalism in its rawest form

 

do you know when i can tell a coin buyer/seller/trader/enquirer is lying/not being totally forthright/ with me?

 

when their lips are moving

 

 

are there rare exceptions to the above hm

 

 

of course!! :shy:

 

I don't disagree that "the coin game," as you put it, has problems; but how did you go from buying and re-selling coins to "capitalism in its rawest form" (intended to be a pejorative)? What on earth is wrong with buying and reselling?

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unfortunately the coin game is capitalism in its rawest form

 

do you know when i can tell a coin buyer/seller/trader/enquirer is lying/not being totally forthright/ with me?

 

when their lips are moving

 

 

are there rare exceptions to the above hm

 

 

of course!! :shy:

 

I don't disagree that "the coin game," as you put it, has problems; but how did you go from buying and re-selling coins to "capitalism in its rawest form" (intended to be a pejorative)? What on earth is wrong with buying and reselling?

 

 

nothing wrong with buying and re-selling coins but it is still capitalism in its rawest form

 

and please

 

see my signature below :shy:

 

 

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I don't see an issue. You sold the coin at a price you were comfortable with (presumably), so why would you care at this point? Shane does make an interesting point (that I am inclined to agree with), but I don't think that is what you mean.

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Ive sometimes sold a coin shortly after buying it because I upgraded. In most cases, when I buy a coin for resale I dont haggle with the price. I recently bought part of a bust half collection, and asked the collector who was selling if he had a problem with me reselling them. I just wanted to make it known in case he did not want that to happen.

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Ive sometimes sold a coin shortly after buying it because I upgraded. In most cases, when I buy a coin for resale I dont haggle with the price. I recently bought part of a bust half collection, and asked the collector who was selling if he had a problem with me reselling them. I just wanted to make it known in case he did not want that to happen.

 

Just out of couriosity, why would he care what you did with your property? He sold them and you own them, and why would you care wheather or not he wanted you to sell the coins you purchased at a fair price which you both agreed to. I assume that you did not hold a gun to his head to make him sell.

wheat

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Ive sometimes sold a coin shortly after buying it because I upgraded. In most cases, when I buy a coin for resale I dont haggle with the price. I recently bought part of a bust half collection, and asked the collector who was selling if he had a problem with me reselling them. I just wanted to make it known in case he did not want that to happen.

 

Just out of couriosity, why would he care what you did with your property? He sold them and you own them, and why would you care wheather or not he wanted you to sell the coins you purchased at a fair price which you both agreed to. I assume that you did not hold a gun to his head to make him sell.

wheat

 

I think that some collectors want their beloved coin to go to a home where it will be appreciated and loved as they did. If the buyer is planning on selling the coin the seller might interpret it as "disrespect" to the coin. I have bought from collectors before who will sell to me at less than a dealer is offering because they know it will go in my collection rather than be treated as merchandise. I don't particularly agree with this sentiment, but I can understand it on a psychological level.

 

At some point most of us would fall into a similar way of thinking. For example:

 

You own a 1913 Liberty nickel (lucky you!!). You want to sell.

Famous artist X offers you 3 million and tells you he plans to drill a hole in it and use it as part of his next modern art sculpture. Well known dealer offers you 2.8 million and has a collector lined up. You receive no other offers. What would you do?

 

 

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Ive sometimes sold a coin shortly after buying it because I upgraded. In most cases, when I buy a coin for resale I dont haggle with the price. I recently bought part of a bust half collection, and asked the collector who was selling if he had a problem with me reselling them. I just wanted to make it known in case he did not want that to happen.

 

Just out of couriosity, why would he care what you did with your property? He sold them and you own them, and why would you care wheather or not he wanted you to sell the coins you purchased at a fair price which you both agreed to. I assume that you did not hold a gun to his head to make him sell.

wheat

 

Some people would rather see their coins go to a collector than to a dealer. Why? Not sure, but thats just the way it is.

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If I sold a coin for what I thought was FMV and for a price that I was content with, then I could care less, if someone tried to make MORE money on it. I would wish them luck, as they would probably need it!!

 

I have seen some markups on EBAY by dealers who also have the SAME coins listed on their websites for almost the same very high markups and I wonder what they are smoking!

 

You'd have to be a fool to pay some of those prices or even near those prices but, if they want to try it, that is their business.

 

I'm sure that they, usually, sit on them or else just break even. I wonder if some dealers even take a loss, at times, just to free up some cash?? Thus starting the whole progressive price inflating process all over again. hm

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Famous artist X offers you 3 million and tells you he plans to drill a hole in it and use it as part of his next modern art sculpture. Well known dealer offers you 2.8 million and has a collector lined up. You receive no other offers. What would you do?

Talk famous artist into using a bezel. :)

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Ive sometimes sold a coin shortly after buying it because I upgraded. In most cases, when I buy a coin for resale I dont haggle with the price. I recently bought part of a bust half collection, and asked the collector who was selling if he had a problem with me reselling them. I just wanted to make it known in case he did not want that to happen.

 

Just out of couriosity, why would he care what you did with your property? He sold them and you own them, and why would you care wheather or not he wanted you to sell the coins you purchased at a fair price which you both agreed to. I assume that you did not hold a gun to his head to make him sell.

wheat

 

I think that some collectors want their beloved coin to go to a home where it will be appreciated and loved as they did. If the buyer is planning on selling the coin the seller might interpret it as "disrespect" to the coin. I have bought from collectors before who will sell to me at less than a dealer is offering because they know it will go in my collection rather than be treated as merchandise. I don't particularly agree with this sentiment, but I can understand it on a psychological level.

 

At some point most of us would fall into a similar way of thinking. For example:

 

You own a 1913 Liberty nickel (lucky you!!). You want to sell.

Famous artist X offers you 3 million and tells you he plans to drill a hole in it and use it as part of his next modern art sculpture. Well known dealer offers you 2.8 million and has a collector lined up. You receive no other offers. What would you do?

 

Reselling and destroying are two entirely different things. We are protectors of history.

wheat

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Nothing is wrong with buying and reselling, except when a "collector" sashays a little softshoe on me as the seller about how the "blah, blah, blah I've been looking for this coins for 12 years, blah, blah, blah" to get your price down and then they flip it to the first dealer who looks at it. It makes me feel cheap and dirty!

 

Dishonor among thieves is what we call this down home (pejoratively of course).

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Famous artist X offers you 3 million and tells you he plans to drill a hole in it and use it as part of his next modern art sculpture. Well known dealer offers you 2.8 million and has a collector lined up. You receive no other offers. What would you do?

Talk famous artist into using a bezel. :)

 

:signfunny:

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I don't see an issue. You sold the coin at a price you were comfortable with (presumably), so why would you care at this point? Shane does make an interesting point (that I am inclined to agree with), but I don't think that is what you mean.

 

If this is directed at me (not the other discussions here) then: I don't care actually. I was just curious. I know that the person who bought the coins from me was a collector who I thought was rather sophisticated. He has probably posted here but mostly at PCGS so I've seen his stuff and it's pretty good. So when I saw the coins for sale on eBay I was just a bit surprised that's all. So it's isn't an "issue" at all.

 

If I sold a coin for what I thought was FMV and for a price that I was content with, then I could care less, if someone tried to make MORE money on it. I would wish them luck, as they would probably need it!!

 

Exactly what I was thinking....

 

I was just curious to see if the people here who sell more material than I do have seen this a lot.

 

jom

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As we speak there is a 1915 s lincoln that sold on Hertage last month for just over $2100 and now for sale on teletrade with a fmv price of $7500. I did not bid in the HA sale because it appears to have a pvc problem or a vertigris problem. Some of you might say it is "toned."

Wheat

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Ive sometimes sold a coin shortly after buying it because I upgraded. In most cases, when I buy a coin for resale I dont haggle with the price. I recently bought part of a bust half collection, and asked the collector who was selling if he had a problem with me reselling them. I just wanted to make it known in case he did not want that to happen.

 

Just out of couriosity, why would he care what you did with your property? He sold them and you own them, and why would you care wheather or not he wanted you to sell the coins you purchased at a fair price which you both agreed to. I assume that you did not hold a gun to his head to make him sell.

wheat

 

I think that some collectors want their beloved coin to go to a home where it will be appreciated and loved as they did. If the buyer is planning on selling the coin the seller might interpret it as "disrespect" to the coin. I have bought from collectors before who will sell to me at less than a dealer is offering because they know it will go in my collection rather than be treated as merchandise. I don't particularly agree with this sentiment, but I can understand it on a psychological level.

 

At some point most of us would fall into a similar way of thinking. For example:

 

You own a 1913 Liberty nickel (lucky you!!). You want to sell.

Famous artist X offers you 3 million and tells you he plans to drill a hole in it and use it as part of his next modern art sculpture. Well known dealer offers you 2.8 million and has a collector lined up. You receive no other offers. What would you do?

 

Reselling and destroying are two entirely different things. We are protectors of history.

wheat

 

I agree they are different, but the same psychological principal applies. You care about what happens to the coin. There is some level of emotional attachment to the object itself and it is not just the purchase price that you are concerned with. The personal parameters a seller may have are likely to be quite varied and could include not wanting to sell to a dealer, to someone who will "destroy" the coin or holder that it resides in, to a person they feel will behave unethically with the coin, or even a person of a race/religion they have a bias towards.

 

I may not agree with a sellers personal paramenters, but I can understand where they are coming from.

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