Coin thief ripped me off.....UPDATED....Last post...Page 15, I think

[Buffalo Head]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

It was for a trade and you know it. The only reason I took the money is because you told me you sold it, right? You sent me the 1923 Buff for the 24 remember? Your not telling the truth Aaron. You sent me the 23 Buff in trade for the 24. You sent me the 23 a week later than you said you would and by the time I received it and told you it was a NOGO on the trade you told me you had sold it at a local coin show and no longer had it, remember? Your a good liar, but you already know this I'm sure. WOW!! The numbers are really adding up here to get my Buff back you stole from me with a lie, eh? You have me blocked and I have you blocked, so how do we handle this? Oh, you want me to send you money? I can NOT trust you, your a liar. I will NEVER send you a money order ....So, how should we do this?

 

If the two of you can come to an agreement, I would be willing to act as a middleman, to whom each of you could send what is due the other party. And after receipt from both of you, I would forward to the other party.

 

Ir Aaron doesn't know who I am, I can provide whatever references he needs.

 

I am willing....Joe

[outfortrout-migration]

This is my final post, Joe, you know the truth and despite that you lie about trades and approval and selling and it just goes on and on... I don't know why you are so upset, and feel the need to attack and to lie. Frankly at this point it doesn't matter, I don't have time to sit reply to each specific lie you have told, and it is obvious you have a group of friends that support you. So I won't waste time trying to give my side of the story to people that don't want to hear it. I made you the offer to sell the coin back to you and it is very simple if you want it, you know what to do, email me as this is my last post on here. I have ALWAYS kept my word and you KNOW if you send me the money you will get the 1924. I pulled the listing off eBay, email me if you want it and I will hold it for 10 days to give you a chance to get payment made. If I don't hear from you I will relist it. It is up to you.

[Buffalo Head]

As I see it and maybe I missed something. Aaron offered 190 bucks for the coin thru email that he posted on this thread. Now I dont remember reading ony of Joes replies that he disputes the email that is posted, just that aaron left some things out. Joe do you not have any of the emails between you two? I know Joe says there was a trade but the email does not clearly state that, but maybe the emails are fabricated? I will say that Aaron coming on here and posting does say something, and the fact that he hasn't thrown names around and seems to be addressing the issue really makes me think there is much more to this than is being presented. And Joe if you know his pictures are juiced why would you put yourself in this situation? The picture you posted of the coin and his dont really differ much in my opinion.

 

I strongly suggest both parties takes Mark's offer and let him be the middle man.

 

Nick

 

Just so ya know. Aaron has posted and selected just the messages HE wants. The messages he posted were from the start this lasted two days and we agreed on a trade ....the 24 for the 23 "ON APPROVAL" I sent him the 24 right away. He did not send the 23 for a WEEK. By the time I receved the 23 and contacted Aaron to tell him I didn't want the AU scratched up 1923 Buff he told me he had sold the coin at a local coin show. He told me he sold it for $190.00. I told him I didn't want the 23 so now what are we going to do because I wanted my 24 back. He told me he was sorry and for me to send the 23 back and he would send me the $190.00. I had no choice at that point but to take the money. But now Aaron has my coin for sale on ebay in an NGC holder graded 64. So ya see he lied about selling the coin at a local coin show, he wanted to keep it. This is what happened and I'll swear it on a stack of Bibles....Joe

[Keigwin]

Both sides should take Mark up on his generous offer. Joe, Aaron: commit and let's move on.

 

This is beginning to sound like the forum ATS.

Lance.

[Buffalo Head]

Both sides should take Mark up on his generous offer. Joe, Aaron: commit and let's move on.

 

This is beginning to sound like the forum ATS.

Lance.

 

Just in case you missed it Lance I agreed to take Mark up on his offer. I sure don't want it to look like ATS but I was RIPPED and it's MY problem, for sure it is. I am just warning you all as what has happened to me . Just like I would want to hear from you if this had happened and who did it and how it happened...But let me tell ya, when I see my coin for sale by the guy who said he doesn't have it anymore really gets me upset, just to put it mildly....I'm done. I'll hope to hear from Mark....

[RWB]

"Tabloid Numismatics.....?" Hold on while I get some bananas and a gallon of milk...

[brg5658]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

If your math here is again any testament to your honesty, then I'm a bit worried. Along with the 1924 Buffalo you had graded on Invoice Number 2562496, you also had 14 other coins. So, the "1924 Buffalo" contribution to the cost is no where close to the $81.10 you quote. Maybe you just double all costs as a part of your business "ethic"??

 

Grading, $30

1/15 of $8 service fee, $0.54

1/15 of shipping to NGC, $1.29

1/15 of shipping from NGC, $1.25

Shipping to Joe, $5

-----------------------------------------------------

$38.08

 

To refresh your memory, your full 15 coin invoice is shown below (recreated from the Verification Checker tool on NGC).

 

[Keigwin]

Yeah, I saw that, Joe. I was just endorsing the idea to use Mark for escrow. And I hope Aaron goes along with it.

 

I'd be bummed too. The whole deal sucks.

 

My crack about looking like the other forum was tongue in cheek. I thought the thread could use a little levity.

Lance.

 

edited to add: Some detective work! I fear the "good faith" offer may fade away.

[Buffalo Head]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

If your math here is again any testament to your honesty, then I'm a bit worried. Along with the 1924 Buffalo you had graded on Invoice Number 2562496, you also had 14 other coins. So, the "1924 Buffalo" contribution to the cost is no where close to the $81.10 you quote. Maybe you just double all costs as a part of your business "ethic"??

 

Grading, $30

1/15 of $8 service fee, $0.54

1/15 of shipping to NGC, $1.29

1/15 of shipping from NGC, $1.25

Shipping to Joe, $5

-----------------------------------------------------

$38.08

 

To refresh your memory, your full 15 coin invoice is shown below (recreated from the Verification Checker tool on NGC).

 

 

Great work!! (thumbs u...I love it! I thought he was up to it again. Thanks bud....Joe

[Buffalo Head]

Yeah, I saw that, Joe. I was just endorsing the idea to use Mark for escrow. And I hope Aaron goes along with it.

 

I'd be bummed too. The whole deal sucks.

 

My crack about looking like the other forum was tongue in cheek. I thought the thread could use a little levity.

Lance.

 

edited to add: Some detective work! I fear the "good faith" offer may fade away.

 

...Yep, looks that way doesn't it. He's a crook.... I rest my case....Joe

[brg5658]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

If your math here is again any testament to your honesty, then I'm a bit worried. Along with the 1924 Buffalo you had graded on Invoice Number 2562496, you also had 14 other coins. So, the "1924 Buffalo" contribution to the cost is no where close to the $81.10 you quote. Maybe you just double all costs as a part of your business "ethic"??

 

Grading, $30

1/15 of $8 service fee, $0.54

1/15 of shipping to NGC, $1.29

1/15 of shipping from NGC, $1.25

Shipping to Joe, $5

-----------------------------------------------------

$38.08

 

To refresh your memory, your full 15 coin invoice is shown below (recreated from the Verification Checker tool on NGC).

 

 

Great work!! (thumbs u...I love it! I thought he was up to it again. Thanks bud....Joe

 

It just keeps getting deeper in here, no? First, he lied about selling the coin to someone at a local show. Then, he lied about having just purchased it from you for $190 with no mention of a "trade" by regurgitating pieces of emails. Then he lied about how much the extra grading set him back....seems to be a tangled web of deceit. Cut your losses, and black list this guy. That may be your only retribution.

[Buffalo Head]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

If your math here is again any testament to your honesty, then I'm a bit worried. Along with the 1924 Buffalo you had graded on Invoice Number 2562496, you also had 14 other coins. So, the "1924 Buffalo" contribution to the cost is no where close to the $81.10 you quote. Maybe you just double all costs as a part of your business "ethic"??

 

Grading, $30

1/15 of $8 service fee, $0.54

 

1/15 of shipping to NGC, $1.29

1/15 of shipping from NGC, $1.25

Shipping to Joe, $5

-----------------------------------------------------

$38.08

 

To refresh your memory, your full 15 coin invoice is shown below (recreated from the Verification Checker tool on NGC).

 

 

Great work!! (thumbs u...I love it! I thought he was up to it again. Thanks bud....Joe

 

It just keeps getting deeper in here, no? First, he lied about selling the coin to someone at a local show. Then, he lied about having just purchased it from you for $190 with no mention of a "trade" by regurgitating pieces of emails. Then he lied about how much the extra grading set him back....seems to be a tangled web of deceit. Cut your losses, and black list this guy. That may be your only retribution.

 

I'm pretty sure your right, it seems fruitless at this point doesn't it? This guy just CAN'T be honest. Or fair.....

 

[Dudley the 1st]

Not to add Salt to your Wound but, EBAY is the wrong place to seek " Buyers " for these type of " On Approval " transactions, unless you absolutely know the individual and their reputation, on the other end . I'm sorry to hear of your " No Way Out " situation with this individual. Blind Trust simply does not work, especially in the EBAY venue, and with belongings that you cherish and value.

 

I feel your agony over this situation.

[Buffalo Head]

Not to add Salt to your Wound but, EBAY is the wrong place to seek " Buyers " for these type of " On Approval " transactions, unless you absolutely know the individual and their reputation, on the other end . I'm sorry to hear of your " No Way Out " situation with this individual. Blind Trust simply does not work, especially in the EBAY venue, and with belongings that you cherish and value.

 

I feel your agony over this situation.

 

Yes it has been a hard lesson learned and I will assure you it will never ever happen again. I thought I could have trusted him, I was soooooo wrong...Still can't trust him and no one should trust him....Bad idea....

[e1cnr]

I feel there must have been some misinterpretation of communication between the 2 involved -

 

was some of this over the phone?

 

if it was all email, why hasn't Buffalo Head refuted or completed the thread that was shown by the alleged 'coin thief' (who boldly joined here and presented his side of the argument in what many would call a forum 'witch hunt')

 

especially the part where he offered his ANACS MS63 for $150?

 

were ther many other items involved with the sale/deal?

 

 

if I sell trade something I value at $150, and a month later I see it in another slab with a large increase in value, I think dang, I should have done that

 

no ax to grind with either party, but interested as I may be involved with something similar in my life sometime

[Hard Times]

As I see it and maybe I missed something. Aaron offered 190 bucks for the coin thru email that he posted on this thread. Now I dont remember reading ony of Joes replies that he disputes the email that is posted, just that aaron left some things out. Joe do you not have any of the emails between you two? I know Joe says there was a trade but the email does not clearly state that, but maybe the emails are fabricated? I will say that Aaron coming on here and posting does say something, and the fact that he hasn't thrown names around and seems to be addressing the issue really makes me think there is much more to this than is being presented. And Joe if you know his pictures are juiced why would you put yourself in this situation? The picture you posted of the coin and his dont really differ much in my opinion.

 

I strongly suggest both parties takes Mark's offer and let him be the middle man.

 

Nick

 

Joe, I hate to say this, you ignored Nick's request above. Prove by email between Aaron and you that there was an agreement as as you claim. The emails posted so far agree to a $190 fee for the coin NOT a trade. So can you clear this up once and for all to show the email that designates the trade as you suggest? I am not trying to say the trade was not there, but maybe I missed the email in the long thread where Aaron agrees to this as did apparently Nick.

 

Best, HT

[noow]

IF ANYONE TRIES TO BUY THE COIN- EMAIL THEM AND LINK TO THIS THREAD AND TELL THEM TO CANCEL THE DEAL.

[rrantique]

Joe, plain and simple, I bought the coin. I sent it in to be graded. I got the better grade. And now that you see it in a better holder you want me to return it to you because you decided you didn't want to sell it? This is a coin dealing business, I buy coins that I think are undergraded, have them regraded and sell them for a profit. It is very simple.

 

I have said my peace, there is no point in dragging it out further.

 

[Walkerfan]

I would PM this Aaron and see if he's willing to do the escrow deal with Mark as the intermediary. If he refuses, then I would just call it a hard lesson and move on.

[jom]

Joe, I hate to say this, you ignored Nick's request above. Prove by email between Aaron and you that there was an agreement as as you claim. The emails posted so far agree to a $190 fee for the coin NOT a trade. So can you clear this up once and for all to show the email that designates the trade as you suggest? I am not trying to say the trade was not there, but maybe I missed the email in the long thread where Aaron agrees to this as did apparently Nick.

 

I agree...this is the one thing that bothered me. The email Aaron posted mentioned Joe would take $150. Then Aaron said he'd pay $190 etc. etc. However, as you know anyone can edit the text of an email. Whether it's Aaron or Joe so I'm not sure what'll be gained by yours and Nick's suggestion.

 

Like I said earlier it does come down to what transpired. Regardless of whether Joe said he'd take $150, if Aaron sent a coin then it's a TRADE. Period. Whether that was sight-unseen or not is another matter. However, I'd believe Joe would NOT buy a coin unseen.

 

jom

[Hard Times]

Joe, I hate to say this, you ignored Nick's request above. Prove by email between Aaron and you that there was an agreement as as you claim. The emails posted so far agree to a $190 fee for the coin NOT a trade. So can you clear this up once and for all to show the email that designates the trade as you suggest? I am not trying to say the trade was not there, but maybe I missed the email in the long thread where Aaron agrees to this as did apparently Nick.

 

I agree...this is the one thing that bothered me. The email Aaron posted mentioned Joe would take $150. Then Aaron said he'd pay $190 etc. etc. However, as you know anyone can edit the text of an email. Whether it's Aaron or Joe so I'm not sure what'll be gained by yours and Nick's suggestion.

 

Like I said earlier it does come down to what transpired. Regardless of whether Joe said he'd take $150, if Aaron sent a coin then it's a TRADE. Period. Whether that was sight-unseen or not is another matter. However, I'd believe Joe would NOT buy a coin unseen.

 

jom

 

Good points jom, clearly the idea of having Mark as an intermediary to work this out is the best solution in the end. I am certainly not questioning Joe's side of the story, but I like evidence wherever possible, but you are correct it could be tainted. We need a DNA test here.......

[ldhair]

Aaron, do the right thing.

 

[Buffalo Head]

Joe, I hate to say this, you ignored Nick's request above. Prove by email between Aaron and you that there was an agreement as as you claim. The emails posted so far agree to a $190 fee for the coin NOT a trade. So can you clear this up once and for all to show the email that designates the trade as you suggest? I am not trying to say the trade was not there, but maybe I missed the email in the long thread where Aaron agrees to this as did apparently Nick.

 

I agree...this is the one thing that bothered me. The email Aaron posted mentioned Joe would take $150. Then Aaron said he'd pay $190 etc. etc. However, as you know anyone can edit the text of an email. Whether it's Aaron or Joe so I'm not sure what'll be gained by yours and Nick's suggestion.

 

Like I said earlier it does come down to what transpired. Regardless of whether Joe said he'd take $150, if Aaron sent a coin then it's a TRADE. Period. Whether that was sight-unseen or not is another matter. However, I'd believe Joe would NOT buy a coin unseen.

 

jom

 

Good points jom, clearly the idea of having Mark as an intermediary to work this out is the best solution in the end. I am certainly not questioning Joe's side of the story, but I like evidence wherever possible, but you are correct it could be tainted. We need a DNA test here.......

 

together in no time at all and just pay ya for that beautiful 26 you sent me

 

They're already tainted. I never ever received a 26 coin of any kind from this guy. I have no reason to add to this BS. I don't like doing this anyways, makes me look like an insufficiently_thoughtful_person and a sucker. Live and learn.....

[jsilver2th]

I don't know how it works in your neighborhood but I'd be looking for a way to find a fair solution. You might call his local district attorney's office and see if he has a reputation.

[Buffalo Head]

I don't know how it works in your neighborhood but I'd be looking for a way to find a fair solution. You might call his local district attorney's office and see if he has a reputation.

 

That'sa really good idea. I think I will. Thanks....

 

Ya know thirty five years ago I would have takin a drive up to Oregon and looked him up for a visit. But I don't do that anymore, I've settled down a bit.

[Elbesaar]

 

OMG, I need a night cap after reading this.

 

I'd give it up, Joe, I don't think Aaron is going

to listen to you - or anyone else here for that

matter.

 

I agreed with Mark's statement that Aaron didn't

own the coin when he submitted it to NGC for

grading. His expenses are the cost of doing business.

 

He needs to return the coin - you need to send him his

$190 back and his POS 1923 Nickel too - but - as I said -

its not going to happen - Sorry you got burnt.

 

...and everyone - lets call it a day.

 

 

[Buffalo Head]

OMG, I need a night cap after reading this.

 

I'd give it up, Joe, I don't think Aaron is going

to listen to you - or anyone else here for that

matter.

 

I agreed with Mark's statement that Aaron didn't

own the coin when he submitted it to NGC for

grading. His expenses are the cost of doing business.

 

He needs to return the coin - you need to send him his

$190 back and his POS 1923 Nickel too - but - as I said -

its not going to happen - Sorry you got burnt.

 

...and everyone - lets call it a day.

 

 

I don't have his 23. I sent it back so I could get my money for the 24. The 23 was a piece of . If I kept that coin I would have really eatin it, hard...

Your right, it's fruitless but at least you've all been warned. Take care and good night. It's been a long day ....Joe.. I don't mind bending a bit, but I'm not going to bend over....

[MarkFeld]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

Out of curiosity, what exactly could NGC do?

 

NGC could terminate his authorized dealer membership. And if the way he attempted to charge Joe an inequitable amount for postage, etc., is any indication, perhaps they should.

 

I think I might give them a call. I wonder if Aaron knows that I worked there for seven years?

[leeg]

This is beginning to sound like the forum ATS.

Lance.

For Sure!

 

 

[huey-migration]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

I have done trades with this guy in the past. It's ALWAYS on approval. This guy juices his images way to much for me to do a trade like that " sight unseen"

He knows very well he ripped me off and lied about selling it. He's a liar & a thief. I swear to God I am telling the truth....

 

You might be correct, but you didn't answer my question regarding the specifics of the transaction agreement. If you were equally vague with him, unfortunately, you might have left an opening for him to take advantage of.

 

I know Mark didn't intend for it to sound so, but I hope he can clarify that this is not an accepted practice, "to take advantage of." The way it's worded almost makes it sound commonplace, upon first read.

 

Sad situation y'all have there, btw. Good luck.