Coin thief ripped me off.....UPDATED....Last post...Page 15, I think

[Buffalo Head]

This is to make you all aware of a coin thief and a man you can not trust. I had a very bad experience with a dealer on ebay I trusted and ripped me off for a 1924 Buffalo Nickel.

The deal was a trade for a 1923 raw buff he had listed for my anacs ms-63 Buff in a little white holder on approval. I sent him my 24 and he was supposed to send me the 23. I sent mine off and he received it in a couple of days. After about 5 days has gone by and I still had not receive this 23 Buff I contacted him and asked why I haven't receive the coin. He says" I forgot to mail it I'll send it off in the morning". Well, I received it alright and it was just horrible and looked NOTHING like the juiced images he had posted along with a huge staple scratch on the obverse that did not show on the images he had listed. So I send him a message telling him this trade will not work. He says " I sold that coin already". I asked him how in hell can you sell my coin before I even looked at the one you FORGOT to send me? He says I thought we had a deal. I tell him we don't and I want my coin back, now! He told me he sold it at a local coin show and it's gone. He said he sold it for $190.00 so I'll just send you the money. I told him what a SOB I think he is and the coin was under graded and this price just wasn't going to cut it.

I had no choice but to except the money. Now I see my coin listed on ebay by him in a NGC ms -64 holder with a price twice what he payed me. Nothing I can do....Not happy....Joe

 

Here's the coin....

 

[19Lyds]

Well that just sucks!

 

Is the NGC coin listed under the id of the seller that you originally negotiated the trade with?

[Chris1976]

OUCH ! sorry to hear about this. If you could PM me the name of the person I would appreciate it greatly so I can avoid any dealings with this seller.

 

-Chris#2

[Buffalo Head]

Well that just sucks!

 

Is the NGC coin listed under the id of the seller that you originally negotiated the trade with?

 

You bet it is. You can see it right now on the bay. Take a look, NGC 1924 Buffalo Nickel MS-64. The one he told me he sold before I even looked at the piece of he sent me. Just for the record..... He's a liar & a thief.....Joe

[comicdonna]

Very sad to hear this, Joe.

[BruceTucson]

Sorry for your bad deal. I have had a few over the years also. You have to be like a cop these days and ask all the questions on a coin or any product you buy or trade. I ask about scratches, dings, etc., via e mail so I get a written reply. Just don’t go by a photo only. It's the crooks out there that make it bad for the honest people. Finally I always use Paypal if I can. In two rip off cases I got my money back from Paypal. One deal was for 3200.00. Trading is cool and part of the collection process, but set up the rules before you trade always. Assume nothing, This may seem like hardball, but it tightens things up and overall you will get what you want in a timely manner.

[MarkFeld]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

[Coindude]

That's an absolute shame Joe. Is the coin in question being sold by the same seller? That's the question that naturally comes to mind.

 

I once had a similar situation, an indian head cent off ebay, in which I received the coin, the coin was not what I purchased. When I talked to the seller he said yes that he realized it and that he made the mistake and to go ahead and send the coin back and he was going to send my refund immediately. So, I went ahead and sent the coin back, a few days later when the check hadn't arrived, I emailed the seller and asked him what was up. He told me that the coin he received back was not the one he sent me and when I sent his coin back he would send my money back. So, he kept the coin and my money. This was back in the early days of ebay when there wasn't much recourse.

 

The sellers name was Bruce Shupper. I don't mind saying since it might save someone a pain, this is not a vendetta.

[Buffalo Head]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

I have done trades with this guy in the past. It's ALWAYS on approval. This guy juices his images way to much for me to do a trade like that " sight unseen"

He knows very well he ripped me off and lied about selling it. He's a liar & a thief. I swear to God I am telling the truth....

[MarkFeld]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

I have done trades with this guy in the past. It's ALWAYS on approval. This guy juices his images way to much for me to do a trade like that " sight unseen"

He knows very well he ripped me off and lied about selling it. He's a liar & a thief. I swear to God I am telling the truth....

 

You might be correct, but you didn't answer my question regarding the specifics of the transaction agreement. If you were equally vague with him, unfortunately, you might have left an opening for him to take advantage of.

[cpm9ball]

Since he lied to you, is there a chance that you can report it to eBay as a stolen coin?

 

Chris

[19Lyds]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

I have done trades with this guy in the past. It's ALWAYS on approval. This guy juices his images way to much for me to do a trade like that " sight unseen"

He knows very well he ripped me off and lied about selling it. He's a liar & a thief. I swear to God I am telling the truth....

Personally, I have no reason at all to doubt your word Joe.

[MarkFeld]

 

 

Sent to EBay seller:

 

"A head's up and suggestion...

 

Dear seller,

 

Whatever you might hope to make on this coin is potentially going to be offset in multiples, by damage to your name and reputation on EBay. The coin's apparent rightful owner has reported that, even though he didn't agree to trade it to you, (due to the unacceptability of your trade coin, once seen in hand) you refused to return it to him, lied in telling him you had already sold it, and are now trying to sell it on EBay.

 

Thousands of coin collectors and dealers, many of whom participate on EBay, might be made aware of this. As might NGC and EBay.

 

I would suggest that you return it to him as quickly as possible, rather than ruining your name permanently, over such a small amount. This looks very bad for you and will not go away quickly or quietly."

 

[Buffalo Head]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

I have done trades with this guy in the past. It's ALWAYS on approval. This guy juices his images way to much for me to do a trade like that " sight unseen"

He knows very well he ripped me off and lied about selling it. He's a liar & a thief. I swear to God I am telling the truth....

 

You might be correct, but you didn't answer my question regarding the specifics of the transaction agreement. If you were equally vague with him, unfortunately, you might have left an opening for him to take advantage of.

 

Like I said, I trusted him because we have done business in the past. He knows very well how this deal was suppose to work. He waited about a week before he sent me the coin. He lied to me and told me he sold my coin, he didn't. He has it for sale right now....

[MarkFeld]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

I have done trades with this guy in the past. It's ALWAYS on approval. This guy juices his images way to much for me to do a trade like that " sight unseen"

He knows very well he ripped me off and lied about selling it. He's a liar & a thief. I swear to God I am telling the truth....

 

You might be correct, but you didn't answer my question regarding the specifics of the transaction agreement. If you were equally vague with him, unfortunately, you might have left an opening for him to take advantage of.

 

Like I said, I trusted him because we have done business in the past. He knows very well how this deal was suppose to work. He waited about a week before he sent me the coin. He lied to me and told me he sold my coin, he didn't. He has it for sale right now....

 

So you had no specific agreement and nothing in writing.

[Buffalo Head]

Since he lied to you, is there a chance that you can report it to eBay as a stolen coin?

 

Chris

 

This was a private deal, a trade off line. Not much I can do but I sure wish there was. I'm making you all aware of what has happened to me and that's about all I can do at this point. I have tried contacting the seller about this listing of my 1924 Buff, but no reply. This guy is a thief and a liar and he ripped me off....

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Oral Agreement, Counselor ?

Anticapatory Breach?? (and its evil partner Quantum)

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[brg5658]

Oral Agreement, Counselor ?

Anticapatory Breach?? (and its evil partner Quantum)

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

There is no libel in saying it was "captivatingcoins" on eBay. Let's just get that documented in this thread. I wish there were an online review of coin sellers on eBay where people could specifically review the sellers without the limit of characters and the "you review me, I'll leave you positive review" loophole that so many sellers use on eBay.

 

I'm sorry for the BS this is causing you Joe. MarkFeld, that note you sent is an A+ class act way of frontally addressing the issue with the seller. The more and more I read your posts, the more I respect you. I look forward to the day that I can buy a coin from your inventory!!

 

-Brandon

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

 

Sent to EBay seller:

 

"A head's up and suggestion...

 

Dear seller,

 

Whatever you might hope to make on this coin is potentially going to be offset in multiples, by damage to your name and reputation on EBay. The coin's apparent rightful owner has reported that, even though he didn't agree to trade it to you, (due to the unacceptability of your trade coin, once seen in hand) you refused to return it to him, lied in telling him you had already sold it, and are now trying to sell it on EBay.

 

Thousands of coin collectors and dealers, many of whom participate on EBay, might be made aware of this. As might NGC and EBay.

 

I would suggest that you return it to him as quickly as possible, rather than ruining your name permanently, over such a small amount. This looks very bad for you and will not go away quickly or quietly."

 

WONDERFUL!!!!!

LOGICAL!!!!!!!

HONORABLE!!!!!!!

 

ELECT FELD........

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[Chris1976]

Since he lied to you, is there a chance that you can report it to eBay as a stolen coin?

 

Chris

 

This was a private deal, a trade off line. Not much I can do but I sure wish there was. I'm making you all aware of what has happened to me and that's about all I can do at this point. I have tried contacting the seller about this listing of my 1924 Buff, but no reply. This guy is a thief and a liar and he ripped me off....

 

What about notifying NGC and Ebay that it is a Stolen Coin? I am sure they would remove the listing for sure and could cause them issues with both companies. I'm not really sure how or what can be done about it since you willingly sent it to him even though he did not honor his side of the transaction.

[MarkFeld]

Oral Agreement, Counselor ?

Anticapatory Breach?? (and its evil partner Quantum)

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

Perhaps there was an oral agreement. But in my mind, my question regarding a specific agreement (whether oral or written), went unanswered.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

You caught on quickly.

 

Obviously you have not forgotten the younger years and effort spent in toiling away for the method to discover the TRUTH....

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[cpm9ball]

Since he lied to you, is there a chance that you can report it to eBay as a stolen coin?

 

Chris

 

This was a private deal, a trade off line. Not much I can do but I sure wish there was. I'm making you all aware of what has happened to me and that's about all I can do at this point. I have tried contacting the seller about this listing of my 1924 Buff, but no reply. This guy is a thief and a liar and he ripped me off....

 

What about notifying NGC and Ebay that it is a Stolen Coin? I am sure they would remove the listing for sure and could cause them issues with both companies. I'm not really sure how or what can be done about it since you willingly sent it to him even though he did not honor his side of the transaction.

 

It doesn't matter that your deal with this crook didn't take place through eBay. What matters is that he is attempting to sell a stolen coin on eBay right now.

 

Chris

[Chris1976]

Chris,

 

I can understand the point that it didnt take place origionally through Ebay, but by notifying both NGC and Ebay it could possibly add a bit more pressure to the current seller of the coin which may (or may not) give the seller a bit of a nudge towards making right on a bad transaction.

 

-Chris#2

[MarkFeld]

Since he lied to you, is there a chance that you can report it to eBay as a stolen coin?

 

Chris

 

This was a private deal, a trade off line. Not much I can do but I sure wish there was. I'm making you all aware of what has happened to me and that's about all I can do at this point. I have tried contacting the seller about this listing of my 1924 Buff, but no reply. This guy is a thief and a liar and he ripped me off....

 

What about notifying NGC and Ebay that it is a Stolen Coin? I am sure they would remove the listing for sure and could cause them issues with both companies. I'm not really sure how or what can be done about it since you willingly sent it to him even though he did not honor his side of the transaction.

 

It doesn't matter that your deal with this crook didn't take place through eBay. What matters is that he is attempting to sell a stolen coin on eBay right now.

 

Chris

 

An ALLEGEDLY stolen coin.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

There is that FACT/TRUTH Thing again-gets you every time.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[Conder101]

What about notifying NGC and Ebay that it is a Stolen Coin?

I had no choice but to except the money.

Buffalohead accepted the $190, so is it stolen? On the other hand I could see an email from Buffalohead to the dealer saying I see you got back the 1924 buffalo that you said you sold before our trade fell through. Since you now have the coin back I'll return the $190 and you return my coin.

 

Of course he will say it's a different coin.

[Buffalo Head]

Oral Agreement, Counselor ?

Anticapatory Breach?? (and its evil partner Quantum)

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

Perhaps there was an oral agreement. But in my mind, my question regarding a specific agreement (whether oral or written), went unanswered.

 

The deal was "On approval" Then he sent me the coin a week later after he says he sold my coin. The deal was on approal. Not sight unseen. He lied and told me the coin was sold when I asked him to return it. Now it's for sale on e-bay. He paid me for this coin with PAYPAL. So he can say he paid for it and did not steal it. But this is ONLY because he told me it was sold. He lied. He got it regraded he's selling it. It was an oral agreement for the trade on approval.....I do appreciate your help in on this Mark....Joe

[Buffalo Head]

What about notifying NGC and Ebay that it is a Stolen Coin?

I had no choice but to except the money.

Buffalohead accepted the $190, so is it stolen? On the other hand I could see an email from Buffalohead to the dealer saying I see you got back the 1924 buffalo that you said you sold before our trade fell through. Since you now have the coin back I'll return the $190 and you return my coin.

 

Of course he will say it's a different coin.

 

He will not answer me. I sent him a letter asking him to return my coin and he will not answer me. I would for sure send him his money back for my coin, no question....Joe

[outfortrout-migration]

Well hello, I am the dealer Joe is referring to, I am more than surprised to see this coming from a gentleman that I considered a friend. He is upset that he didn‘t send to NGC himself and get the better grade. On approval? Trade? WHATEVER!!! This coin was paid for so to call me a thief doesn‘t even warrant a response. Excerpts of the emails that led to the transaction are below. Remember when you see rampant posts from folks on forums there are 2 SIDES to every story told. Good luck on your collections! - Aaron

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Joseph wrote:

>

> Here's the pictures of the 24 MS-63. I have also attached some images of one of the mint

> sets. Their not from the mint, but put together by some after market

> company. These mint sets are sought after for their toning and I'm sure you

> make money on them, and easy to sell. Some of the coins in there are worth

> much more than the price I'm asking. I can send them on to you and ya just

> look them over and I'm sure you'll be happy. If not I'll have the money

> together in no time at all and just pay ya for that beautiful 26 you sent me. Your a good man and I trust

> the hell out of you. I also love your coins, buddy. Take care my friend and

> let me know your thoughts....Joe

 

> From: Aaron

> To: Joseph

> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:24 PM

> Subject: Re: 1924 Pics

>

> Looks great, lets run with the mint sets, I am excited to see them and think a trade is just fine.

> What do you want for that 1924? I will pay ya cash on that one, it sure is a

> beauty! -Aaron

>

 

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Joseph wrote:

>

>The 24 MS-63 is a very nice coin and I'm sure you'll love it, and I

> could use some cash, so how does $150.00 sound for the MS63 24? Let me know and I'll send

> it off with the others. Take care...Joe

 

 

 

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Aaron

> wrote:

>

> I think you are cutting yourself a bit short on the 1924, Lets do $190 on it

> and I think there is still room for me to make a couple bucks on it. - Aaron