Coin thief ripped me off.....UPDATED....Last post...Page 15, I think

[Kamillion]

karma is a b itch

 

dont worry joe.

[Buffalo Head]

karma is a b itch

 

dont worry joe.

 

Well, I hope the bad Karma catches up with him before I do. That could be REALLY bad....The thief....

[jom]

It's no surprise I never got an answer to my question. Therefore, it can be assumed the original transaction was a TRADE, unlike what the seller said right here in this thread. So he lied AGAIN. Niiiice.

 

Joe, there isn't much you can do accept LEARN from the situation all you can. Such as not dealing with this clown (obviously) but how to do a trade such as this....even when you think you know the person.

 

If you remember in our transaction I was very wordy (too much I suppose) to make absolutely certain what was going down. In our situation I passed on the coin but there was no problem. We did another deal (the nickel) and that went fine as well. That does not mean I won't be as "wordy" the next time...I will...even though I know you. Just so nothing is misunderstood.

 

jom

[jerseycat10]

Honestly, I feel like I am not getting the full story on both sides.

[Buffalo Head]

It's no surprise I never got an answer to my question. Therefore, it can be assumed the original transaction was a TRADE, unlike what the seller said right here in this thread. So he lied AGAIN. Niiiice.

 

Joe, there isn't much you can do accept LEARN from the situation all you can. Such as not dealing with this clown (obviously) but how to do a trade such as this....even when you think you know the person.

 

If you remember in our transaction I was very wordy (too much I suppose) to make absolutely certain what was going down. In our situation I passed on the coin but there was no problem. We did another deal (the nickel) and that went fine as well. That does not mean I won't be as "wordy" the next time...I will...even though I know you. Just so nothing is misunderstood.

 

jom

 

Jom, your a good man and I do trust you. It's guy's like this that KILL it for me, ya know? This SOB I thought I could trust but I dropped the ball, I guess. How the heck can a guy tell who to trust? I worded it just fine. It was a trade on approval just like I've done in the past with so many GOOD folks. This one here is just the worst as I see MY coin for sale on e-bay and it really sucks BIG TIME my friend. I've owned that 24 for years and years and I liked it in the little white anacs holder it was in. The new grade means squat to me, it's the coin I liked. So your right, of course, it's a lesson, but where do I go from here? Do I trust again? I feel like a sucker every time I see my coin for sale, it hurts a bunch no , it does. I want to thank all of you for your support on this and if you know what's good for ya....KNOW WHO THE HECK YOUR DEALING WITH!!!! But like I said I thought I could have trusted him, I was VERY wrong....Joe

[Buffalo Head]

Honestly, I feel like I am not getting the full story on both sides.

 

Well, you can believe me or you can believe the thief liar. It's your choice. I have zero reson for this if it was not true, I just would have no reason. I am an honest person and have had many, many dealing with good folks and zero problems, till now with this jerk. This was meant to be a trade on approval. But he told me he sold the coin when I told him this trade would not work. He sent me the 23 a week after I sent him the 24. These are the facts. There is no reason for me to sit here all day just to make sure this is clear. Where is he?

I'll tell ya where he is....He's selling my coin on ebay, that's where he is and I'm blocked from buying it .....

 

[jom]

It's tough to say if you are bummed out enough not to trust anyone.

 

As to the transaction, if you cut out all of the BS you did get what you wanted for the coin eventually, right? $190 CASH?

 

If true, regardless of the other non-sense that went on, you'll have to live with that.

 

I don't know what else to do other than to just move on. Life is an education for sure.

 

jom

[Buffalo Head]

It's tough to say if you are bummed out enough not to trust anyone.

 

As to the transaction, if you cut out all of the BS you did get what you wanted for the coin eventually, right? $190 CASH?

 

If true, regardless of the other non-sense that went on, you'll have to live with that.

 

I don't know what else to do other than to just move on. Life is an education for sure.

 

jom

 

No not right. I only took the money because he told me he no longer owned it. I wanted the coin back. So I didn't get what I wanted....And yes it's looks as though I will have to live with it....

[James_OldeTowne]

Well hello, I am the dealer Joe is referring to, I am more than surprised to see this coming from a gentleman that I considered a friend. He is upset that he didn‘t send to NGC himself and get the better grade. On approval? Trade? WHATEVER!!! This coin was paid for so to call me a thief doesn‘t even warrant a response. Excerpts of the emails that led to the transaction are below. Remember when you see rampant posts from folks on forums there are 2 SIDES to every story told. Good luck on your collections! - Aaron

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Joseph wrote:

>

> Here's the pictures of the 24 MS-63. I have also attached some images of one of the mint

> sets. Their not from the mint, but put together by some after market

> company. These mint sets are sought after for their toning and I'm sure you

> make money on them, and easy to sell. Some of the coins in there are worth

> much more than the price I'm asking. I can send them on to you and ya just

> look them over and I'm sure you'll be happy. If not I'll have the money

> together in no time at all and just pay ya for that beautiful 26 you sent me. Your a good man and I trust

> the hell out of you. I also love your coins, buddy. Take care my friend and

> let me know your thoughts....Joe

 

> From: Aaron

> To: Joseph

> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:24 PM

> Subject: Re: 1924 Pics

>

> Looks great, lets run with the mint sets, I am excited to see them and think a trade is just fine.

> What do you want for that 1924? I will pay ya cash on that one, it sure is a

> beauty! -Aaron

>

 

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Joseph wrote:

>

>The 24 MS-63 is a very nice coin and I'm sure you'll love it, and I

> could use some cash, so how does $150.00 sound for the MS63 24? Let me know and I'll send

> it off with the others. Take care...Joe

 

 

 

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Aaron

> wrote:

>

> I think you are cutting yourself a bit short on the 1924, Lets do $190 on it

> and I think there is still room for me to make a couple bucks on it. - Aaron

Aaron.... if that's even your real name, you sound like the kind of person that is a very poor steward of the hobby, and I hope you are out of business soon. A numismatic transaction is not a completed transaction until both parties express approval with their respective results, and you know that. Choosing to ignore common sense and simple ethics is the mark of a low-life nobody, and that's probably all you'll ever be.

 

Why don't you stand up for once and do what's right, and set a good example for whomever might look up to you? It isn't too late to correct your despicable mistake.

[Walkerfan]

I will definately block captivatingcoins on ebay.

 

Thanks for this info. Me, too!! What a scumbag!!

 

Also, I'm sorry this happened to you, Joe.

[jom]

Why don't you stand up for once and do what's right, and set a good example for whomever might look up to you? It isn't too late to correct your despicable mistake.

 

The guy is gonna make, maybe, $200 on this deal. But he's probably lost 20 potential buyers just due to this thread. I hope it was worth it.

 

jom

[PerryHall]

I will definately block captivatingcoins on ebay.

 

Thank you my friend. His images are juiced to the max anyways. While your at it you might want to block "Northernnickels" & "Nickelsniper" also because this slim goes by many names....

 

Thanks. He and his aliases are on my do not buy from list. His rip will cost him much more than he gained.

[Walkerfan]

karma is a b itch

 

dont worry joe.

 

This is soooooo true.

[MarkFeld]

He sent me the 1924, I sent him $190. it was a sale, not a trade.

 

As I said in my message to you through EBay - Whatever you might hope to make on this coin is potentially going to be offset in multiples, by damage to your name and reputation on EBay.

 

That is obviously already happening, and probably has a very long way to go. This is a tight and highly vocal community here, with extensive collector, dealer and EBay connections all around the country.

 

If you lied, in saying you had sold Joe's coin when you hadn't actually done so, it speaks extremely poorly of your character and kills your credibility. You won't be able to talk your way out of that, and ignoring it won't make it go away. I assure you, we have collectively fried much larger fish than you.

 

 

[outfortrout-migration]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

[bsshog40]

Wow what a thread! Joe, I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. It's a shame that the almighty buck turns people from respectable business people to greedy individuals. Maybe the seller will not be able to sell the coin at the hijacked price, and give him time to realize what the right thing to do is before all is said and done. I never have done business with him, and regardless of what the entire agreemment consisted of, I still perceive dishonesty from this seller and I won't be purchasing anything from him in the future also.

[jom]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade.

 

You gave him a coin for another. What do you call that? But whatever the semantics the deal was based on Joe's approval of the 23-P. In fact, the same goes for you. It was possible that you wouldn't have like Joe's 24-P. It goes both ways. However, since he didn't approve there was NO deal. The cash didn't come until later. So you've been distorting the truth here.

 

Your "proposal", BTW, is bogus, IMO. Why don't you offer Joe some money yourself? Another $100 or whatever you can agree on. Why should he pay YOU for being deceptive?

 

jom

[Buffalo Head]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

It was for a trade and you know it. The only reason I took the money is because you told me you sold it, right? You sent me the 1923 Buff for the 24 remember? Your not telling the truth Aaron. You sent me the 23 Buff in trade for the 24. You sent me the 23 a week later than you said you would and by the time I received it and told you it was a NOGO on the trade you told me you had sold it at a local coin show and no longer had it, remember? Your a good liar, but you already know this I'm sure. WOW!! The numbers are really adding up here to get my Buff back you stole from me with a lie, eh? You have me blocked and I have you blocked, so how do we handle this? Oh, you want me to send you money? I can NOT trust you, your a liar. I will NEVER send you a money order ....So, how should we do this?

[Walkerfan]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade.

 

You gave him a coin for another. What do you call that? But whatever the semantics the deal was based on Joe's approval of the 23-P. In fact, the same goes for you. It was possible that you wouldn't have like Joe's 24-P. It goes both ways. However, since he didn't approve there was NO deal. The cash didn't come until later. So you've been distorting the truth here.

 

Your "proposal", BTW, is bogus, IMO. Why don't you offer Joe some money yourself? Another $100 or whatever you can agree on. Why should he pay YOU for being deceptive?

 

jom

 

Yeah, Joe would have to be crazy to send him a check after being ripped off once, already. I wouldn't do it! Then he fraudulently swindles EVEN MORE money. I would cut him a check only AFTER I had the coin IN HAND. The only other alternative would be if he pays Joe the difference and then keeps the coin, as Jom just said.

[brg5658]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

Still no reply or explanation for the fact that you lied to Joe and told him you sold it to someone at a local show?? Your glossing over that part kind of makes it clear who is telling the truth here...

[jom]

Yeah, Joe would have to be crazy to send him a check after being ripped of once, already. I wouldn't do it! Then he fraudulently swindles EVEN MORE money. I would cut him a check only AFTER I had the coin IN HAND.

 

Actually, I was suggesting the eBayer keep the coin and pay Joe the proper amount. I don't see a good way for Joe to get the coin back. It's just simpler that way. But, yeah, I wouldn't be cutting any checks to this guy.

 

Frankly, I know now why JerseyCat was confused. I'm not sure how the $190 got thrown about to begin with. Clearly, Joe didn't think that was what his 24-P was worth. However, that is the one reason it is NOT a good idea to do coin for coin trades without setting value. You are twisting in the wind otherwise.

 

jom

[jom]

[still no reply or explanation for the fact that you lied to Joe and told him you sold it to someone at a local show?? Your glossing over that part kind of makes it clear who is telling the truth here...

 

All true but the underlying problem is whether there was a sight-seen transaction. If it was "coin for coin" then it was sight-seen. The eBayer never answered my earlier question about this...now we know why.

 

jom

[MarkFeld]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

It was for a trade and you know it. The only reason I took the money is because you told me you sold it, right? You sent me the 1923 Buff for the 24 remember? Your not telling the truth Aaron. You sent me the 23 Buff in trade for the 24. You sent me the 23 a week later than you said you would and by the time I received it and told you it was a NOGO on the trade you told me you had sold it at a local coin show and no longer had it, remember? Your a good liar, but you already know this I'm sure. WOW!! The numbers are really adding up here to get my Buff back you stole from me with a lie, eh? You have me blocked and I have you blocked, so how do we handle this? Oh, you want me to send you money? I can NOT trust you, your a liar. I will NEVER send you a money order ....So, how should we do this?

 

If the two of you can come to an agreement, I would be willing to act as a middleman, to whom each of you could send what is due the other party. And after receipt from both of you, I would forward to the other party.

 

Ir Aaron doesn't know who I am, I can provide whatever references he needs.

[jesbroken]

Joe, my friend, you cannot win in any form in regards to getting your coin back. You can win by the cost to this seller for his actions and believe me, he does not yet even realize the extent of this expense he is going to shell out in loss of sales. Let him see how many more 1919 buffs he sells to a certain buyer, or 1916 buffs he sells to another in the future as the number is zero. The three coin forums have over 10k members and word travels fast. I do not wish "aaron" luck in the future as he has made his and hopefully some choking occurs with it.

Get over it Joe and be thankful for your many true friends who will see to a fitting punishment.

Jim

[Buffalo Head]

Yeah, Joe would have to be crazy to send him a check after being ripped of once, already. I wouldn't do it! Then he fraudulently swindles EVEN MORE money. I would cut him a check only AFTER I had the coin IN HAND.

 

Actually, I was suggesting the eBayer keep the coin and pay Joe the proper amount. I don't see a good way for Joe to get the coin back. It's just simpler that way. But, yeah, I wouldn't be cutting any checks to this guy.

 

Frankly, I know now why JerseyCat was confused. I'm not sure how the $190 got thrown about to begin with. Clearly, Joe didn't think that was what his 24-P was worth. However, that is the one reason it is NOT a good idea to do coin for coin trades without setting value. You are twisting in the wind otherwise.

 

jom

 

I don't know a single person that would do a trade sight unseen. But Aaron here for some reason thought I was? Aaron thought I would take an AU scratched up Buff for an MS-63 Buff that's been graded for a raw coin sight unseen. Never have I ever done this. Hey Aaron, remember when you told me you forgot to send the 23 off and I got it a week later? Do ya? Why did you send me the 23 if it wasn't a trade? I guess you don't know the difference between an AU and an MS ? You told me the 23 was at least a MS-64. So you lied again about the grade.....And you thought I would trade my 24 for the piece of junk you sent me? Give me a break....And you said you sold it and it's now for sale by you? Weird

[MarkFeld]

The only person that has lied is Joe, it is a shame that everyone buys into his lies about a trade. I will extend a public offer to you if you want the coin back, refund my payment of $190 then send me a postal money order for the $81.10 I have invested into getting it upgraded ( grading fee of $30.00 + $8.00 NGC service fee the $19.40 registered shipping/insurance I paid to get it to NGC and $18.70 registered return shipping from NGC and $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping it to you.) and I will pop it in the mail to you. I have done nothing wrong and you know it.

 

If you submitted the coin to NGC before a trade was mutually agreed to, you had no right to do so. And Joe should not have to reimburse you for fees you shouldn't have been spending on his coin at that point.

 

You sound as if you might be starting to get some idea as to how much damage your actions might eventually cost you. But you still aren't fully aware of it, yet. Don't wait until it's too late.

[coinman_23885]

Oral Agreement, Counselor ?

Anticapatory Breach?? (and its evil partner Quantum)

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

I would think that any attempt to enforce the putative oral agreement would be seemingly futile and that the OP would face serious issues with evidence, no? What is your thought on this? Given your diction and the syntax of your sentences, I'm thinking that you are a lawyer educated decades ago when this sort of phrasing was relatively common.

 

[nk1nk]

As I see it and maybe I missed something. Aaron offered 190 bucks for the coin thru email that he posted on this thread. Now I dont remember reading ony of Joes replies that he disputes the email that is posted, just that aaron left some things out. Joe do you not have any of the emails between you two? I know Joe says there was a trade but the email does not clearly state that, but maybe the emails are fabricated? I will say that Aaron coming on here and posting does say something, and the fact that he hasn't thrown names around and seems to be addressing the issue really makes me think there is much more to this than is being presented. And Joe if you know his pictures are juiced why would you put yourself in this situation? The picture you posted of the coin and his dont really differ much in my opinion.

 

I strongly suggest both parties takes Mark's offer and let him be the middle man.

 

Nick

[Buffalo Head]

Joe, my friend, you cannot win in any form in regards to getting your coin back. You can win by the cost to this seller for his actions and believe me, he does not yet even realize the extent of this expense he is going to shell out in loss of sales. Let him see how many more 1919 buffs he sells to a certain buyer, or 1916 buffs he sells to another in the future as the number is zero. The three coin forums have over 10k members and word travels fast. I do not wish "aaron" luck in the future as he has made his and hopefully some choking occurs with it.

Get over it Joe and be thankful for your many true friends who will see to a fitting punishment.

Jim

 

Yes I have made many friends here and I enjoy this forum more than most will ever know. I am very gratefull for the friends I have made and the support I have received here from this ugly post. I have been violated by Aaron and he very well knows this. I see my coin listed for sale and it puts a RAGE through me I can't shake.

[coinman_23885]

Sorry to hear that.

 

What were the specific terms of the trade agreement? Was it worded as a sight-seen trade?

 

I would suggest that you contact both EBay and NGC - perhaps either or both could put some pressure on the seller.

 

Out of curiosity, what exactly could NGC do?