Verdict for the government in 1933 Saints trial...

[MarkFeld]

Coin World bulletin

 

I am mildly surprised and disappointed, as my guess is that the coins left the Mint via legal, albeit questionable/unknown means.

[J.A. Collection]

This is very disappointing. Unless there is some othe proof out there that shows they were taken from the Mint illegally.

[ModCrewman-migration]

There's a couple of very active thread on this topic ATS Mark, you should just post your comments there...oh yeah...sorry about that.

 

I too was surprised by the verdict, but from CW's summary articles, my opinion was that the Government put up a stronger case...after all it only had to be 51/49 preponderance of the evidence in this case.

[James_OldeTowne]

Legally and ethically, I suspect it is the correct verdict.

 

From a practical standpoint, it is lunacy.

[Walkerfan]

Can they appeal and, if so, will they?

 

Doesn't make sense. Why is it legal to own 1913 V nickel but not 1933 Saints?

[MarkFeld]

Can they appeal and, if so, will they?

 

Doesn't make sense. Why is it legal to own 1913 V nickel but not 1933 Saints?

1913 Liberty nickels were never officially produced. So they don't exist and therefore, couldn't have been removed from the Mint illegally.

[James_OldeTowne]

Incidentally, I've been of the thought from Day One that these 10 are only SOME of the 1933s found . Surely the Langbords were savvy enough to temporarily misplace "the rest" of them .

[123cents]

The 1 legally owned 1933 Saint value probably just went up.

[WoodenJefferson]

So now, what becomes of these NGC encapsulated widgets?

[Walkerfan]

Can they appeal and, if so, will they?

 

Doesn't make sense. Why is it legal to own 1913 V nickel but not 1933 Saints?

1913 Liberty nickels were never officially produced. So they don't exist and therefore, couldn't have been removed from the Mint illegally.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[jtryka]

I don't think NGC actually encapsulated them, they just rendered a grading opinion, thought I could be wrong. This case just again tells me we need another revolution, since his idiotic notion that the government owns everything and they have the power to let us have a few crumbs is 180 degrees away from what our founders fought for. I think for the rest of my days I will be hoping for nothing less than the complete collapse and abolition of the corrupt form of government we are now being oppressed by.

[MarkFeld]

I don't think NGC actually encapsulated them, they just rendered a grading opinion, thought I could be wrong. This case just again tells me we need another revolution, since his idiotic notion that the government owns everything and they have the power to let us have a few crumbs is 180 degrees away from what our founders fought for. I think for the rest of my days I will be hoping for nothing less than the complete collapse and abolition of the corrupt form of government we are now being oppressed by.

The coins were definitely encapsulated by NGC. I have seen pictures of them.

 

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[jtryka]

I stand corrected. Of course the Langbords should have slipped some cash to NGC to change the dates to 1932 and the beaurocrats probably would have just dropped the case!

[Hard Times]

This is a total shocker, I thought Roger Burdette found evidence that demonstrates some were produced before the melting law was in place and could have left the mint legally.

[Walkerfan]

Were they slabbed by the Gov't or by the Langbords??

 

If they were sent to NGC by the latter, then why was authentication necessary??

 

That is pretty naive.

[Hard Times]

Burdette appears to be the wrong expert witness for the Langbords... Ouch! Watch what you say in the boards, you never know when it will come back at you...

 

Burdette Cross Examined

[MarkFeld]

Were they slabbed by the Gov't or by the Langbords??

 

If they were sent to NGC by the latter, then why was authentication necessary??

 

That is pretty naive.

Guess.

[nunfa0]

So, how long before the Gobermint puts these up for sale?

[AegisIII]

To be honest, after reading all of Roach's daily updates, I'm not at all surprised at the verdict. Frankly, the federal attorneys were able to make a good, flowing case and it sounded like they just plain did much better than Berke. Berke seemed to hope that he could just try to argue some room for doubt, and seemed to ignore that in a civil case he needed much more doubt than in a criminal case. That plus he seemed to have a line of "argument" of trying to use general strong anti-government feelings to direct a verdict his way. That may work quite well on some coin forums, but apparently not as well on a diverse jury.

 

I do agree with people who have said that the federal attorneys may have been a bit too tough on RWB at times, but to be honest, arguing for a mere possibility that the coins may have left legally at some time is far from showing that that is more likely than that they were stolen/pilfered out instead. Besides, Berke was also too tough on Tripp at times also.

[jtryka]

The legal agreement signed by the government for the sale of the first 33 stated that no others would ever be declared legal to own. But it wouldn't be the first time the governement ignored a contract to screw someone over...

[Keigwin]

The Langbords lost 10 '33 double eagles today. What a bummer. Would have been fun to have them in the collector universe.

 

I wonder what they'll do with the others?

 

Surely if you have a couple dozen in your possession, and you want to challenge the gov't and get a ruling, you don't send them everything you have. Just enough to be convincing. Ten seems about right.

 

The anonymous owner of the one legal '33 is enjoying himself right now. But for how long?

Lance.

[Walkerfan]

Were they slabbed by the Gov't or by the Langbords??

 

If they were sent to NGC by the latter, then why was authentication necessary??

 

That is pretty naive.

Guess.

 

Gov't no doubt.......I should have thought first before posting.

 

Government will sell them. I give it 7 - 10 years before they are up for auction.

 

Augustus

 

I give it less than that.

 

 

[shirohniichan]

Burdette appears to be the wrong expert witness for the Langbords... Ouch! Watch what you say in the boards, you never know when it will come back at you...

 

Burdette Cross Examined

 

Man, if an attorney, judge or jury were to take my sarcastic remarks literally I'd be sunk.

[DC Dawg]

I always wondered what happened to the Statute of Limitations?

[Conder101]

1913 Liberty nickels were never officially produced. So they don't exist and therefore, couldn't have been removed from the Mint illegally.

Since they don't exist do you think we could get the governments help in going after anyone who tries to sell one for committing fraud? After all they're trying to sell something that doesn't exist so they must be misrepresenting them.

[MarkFeld]

I always wondered what happened to the Statute of Limitations?

I believe that in a number of cases the statuette of limitations clock starts at the time one party becomes aware of what the other party did, not necessarily when the act occurred.

[Buffalo Head]

I think I'm going to be sick....

[johnny9434]

what a shame. if any more are found id almost bet theyll be sold outside the country. one might as well

[leeg]

I hope if/when Roger feels up to it he'll share his thoughts with us here around this experience.

[RWB]

As noted back in January, I cannot comment on the 1933 DE trial or events until I am told the matter is fully concluded. Those are the legal-world rules and I have to obey them.