80s Kid

Thanks for looking at it but I wasn't planning on buying. I was browsing through Peace Dollars and this one didn't look right. I was using an app with a photo of a gem 1921 Peace Dollar to compare to the eBay photos.

So the cheek and mouth/lips don't look off to you? It might just be the lighting making the cheek appear to be puffed out toward the mouth almost like a sideways horseshoe.

I came across this 1921 Peace Dollar on eBay and the facial features, especially the mouth and cheek, don't look right to me. Also the hair looks a bit off in the "bun" and other areas. 

I'm definitely not an expert so I could be completely off but figured I'd ask. Seller has lots of positive feedback but doesn't accept returns.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265082475209

This thread went crazy since I last posted. WC I previously mentioned Barber Halves because of an "educated hunch" but your points are valid. Basically it has to do with the fact that the coins were heavily used so high quality or even decent survivors are more difficult to come. Add in the fact that mintage #s were not in the stratosphere compared to just about anything else from the 20th Century. 

The BCCS is alive and well and Halves are big enough for "large coin bias" (I've heard it's a thing). 2nd Edition of the Barber Coins Guidebook was printed not long ago. The series is over 100 years old and 90% silver. 

Basically it's hard enough for a good challenge but has no true "stoppers" in circulated condition ("Micro o" 1892 being the most difficult if you think it's necessary).

Also a time where lots of people are spending more time at home and a Fed that can't stop creating $ out of thin air = significant interest in silver, especially "junk silver" and you have yourself a hobby with a floor of inflation protection. 

I don't expect WC to agree and that's fine. I just think the series needs a lot less than most of the other US Coinage to tip the supply/demand scale in favor of higher prices.

One other weird thought I had was high-quality "details" slabbed coins being undervalued. Just a thought though...

A little old but on point: https://www.pcgs.com/news/barber-coins-great-collector-coins-at-a-bargain-price

I've only been collecting for a few years but this is a topic I find interesting (price trends and appreciation or lack thereof). 

One site I came across a year or two ago attempts to track US rare coin values since 1950 is https://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/

It's a little annoying to navigate but I do find the info intriguing. I'm not saying the info should be taken as gospel but it somewhat implies that key dates are your best bet if you're looking for price appreciation. 

Some coins have more info than others but there's still a lot of data. Although I don't necessarily agree with all of the recommendations, I do think there is some merit around the key dates vs common track record and future potential. I use the term key dates a bit loosely but my collecting has a bias toward the tougher dates of US Coinage.

Barber Halves have been my primary focus over the past year and is part of the reason I started reading this thread. I think the supply/demand profile is potentially good for future appreciation, however, this is basically an educated "hunch" and no more. I genuinely like the series and the history behind it. I've been looking for a 1914 Barber Half Proof for a while but have yet to come across one that I like. I just find it fascinating that only 380 were made and one can still be had for a price that's not in the stratosphere (IMO). The background about R. Lawson Miles Jr. hoarding 1914 and 1915 Proofs is interesting and makes finding an attractive example of the coin even more difficult (his secretary allegedly cleaned all of the hoarded proofs with silver polish).

Anyway, I have no affiliation with the site or owner. I also think less attention has been paid toward running the site compared to when I first stumbled upon it. Regardless, I do think it's worth a visit if you're interested in researching historical values of US rare coins. The site even attempts to break out historical prices by different grades of each year and mint mark.

On 1/3/2021 at 11:39 AM, Coinbuf said:

If you want to setup a type raw registry you can do so at Gerry Fortin's website, his registry accepts raw and slabbed.  The only catch is that there are very few categories and of course there are no awards, just a way to show off your collection.

Thanks for the info about Gerry Fortin's website. I started uploading my Barber Half Dollars there. I'm just not able to upload photos. It's possible my browser is not showing the page properly or I just need to spend more time learning about the site. Otherwise, it's not too bad.

10 hours ago, rocket23 said:

shoot I graded a '64 quarter...aint no shame in grading a coin....it's your coin no one elses' lot of folk here tell ya different with cost an all......me , I'd tell ya to grade it,I don't care about the cost just the grade......course I lose hundreds at the track on a given weekend so what do I know.....

Most of the raw coins I have come from a local coin shop that's been in business for a long time so the owner grades all of the raw coins himself. I understand the concept of you having the final say but I rarely ever disagree with the grades at this place.

My only concern is the NGC Registry and being able to submit coins requires them to be slabbed. The creation of a "raw coin registry" would be interesting but would probably have to be informal with no points or some kind of voting system. 

15 minutes ago, rocket23 said:

good looking coin right there...

Thank you! I was really tempted to get an 1896-O graded Fine (Raw) but it wasn't that nice of a coin for the grade (the 1896-O is very high on my want list).

I'm really liking the challenge of this series... almost every date/mint is scarce @ Fine or better but the only real "Stopper" is the 1892-O "Micro O" variety.

I've got a long way to go but I've only been collecting for approx 2 years with less than a year devoted to Barber Half Dollars. 

I acquired this coin (1894 Morgan) about a year ago when I was focused on Morgan Dollars but never posted it. I don't think I was even a member of this site yet but it goes along with my "Key Dates" collecting theme.

I'm still trying to figure out how to narrow my focus since key dates isn't really a category. I could attempt to obtain a type set (I think) with one key date for each major US Coin but I still like the idea of completing a set of all dates and mint marks for at least one US Coin... Right now it would be Barber Half Dollars. 

Any ideas are welcome but I have a habit of jumping around in different areas for Key Dates (Peace, Morgan, Ikes, Barber, Walking Liberty, Franklin, Kennedy and Washington Quarters). 

7 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I am a finance guy too so we share that in common.  I checked out that site -- it's not bad, better than nothing -- but I believe that some of the prices for specific grades are somewhat limited (i.e., Saint-Gaudens DEs).  For smaller denomination coins, you may find it adequate.

I also am not sold on the actual prices for the grades listed.  They tend to be focusing on very long time frames so that their more recent prices won't skew the CAGR results.  But if you are a finance guy, you know that using a starting point of 1950 is ridiculous.  The period for PM's and gold/silver before 1973 (floating exchange rates) is fundamentally different since then. 

You had the demise of the gold standard, floating exchange rates, and a couple of PM and numismatic bubbles.  This makes using ROLLING PERIODS much more important than arbitrarily using certain starting points.  As you know, rolling periods show that stocks almost always generate positive risk-adjusted rewards over 10-20 year time periods, and ALL 30-year periods.  That is NOT the case with coins, whether small denomination, silver, or gold coins.

I believe that the site is more of a marketing vehicle to steer people into buying coins, and specific ones at that.  Lots of ads.  And the focus on more expensive "key dates" for the Saint series rather than cheaper commons is very telling.

Best source of data today is actual auction sales at HA, then GC, SB, and maybe Ebay. 

I agree that the site is limited. I look at it more like a "tool" or one piece of a bigger puzzle. It's very difficult to find reliable info on returns for rare coins (for me at least) and I thought this site did a pretty good job considering how many variables that come into play. 

One of the issues I had was the reasoning behind choosing certain key dates over others. For example, he doesn't include the 1921-S Walking Liberty Half Dollar as one of the examples of key dates with solid historical returns since 1950. However, when you look at the historical returns for the 1921-S, they're right in line with the other key dates. It looks like this coin was omitted because he has a bias toward using lower circulated grades to determine investment potential. When you look at the returns for higher grades, they're higher (makes sense since the lowest grades for the 1921-S are not as rare compared to other key dates like the 1921 and 1921-D).

There are some annoying ads but I thought the only things being marketed were his downloadable investment returns for a large sample of rare coins and Morgan Dollars (maybe one or two others?). 

I still like the site and think it's something useful to build off of. If anyone has another good source for investment returns of specific rare coins, please share. Thank you!

Thanks for all the info. The more I read up on this topic, one of the impressions I got was that the term may have been somewhat of a marketing gimmick and/or jargon. The only reason I even looked into the topic was because the seller of my coin said some people would probably try and market the 1897-S as a Branch Mint Proof (even though he stated that coin was not or that if it was, he had no proof - pardon the pun). 

Barber Half Dollars are intriguing to me but I like big coins so I still go for the occasional Peace, Morgan or Ike Dollar (most of my Ikes came from the bank; just ask and occasionally they have some. I even got a Peace Dollar a couple years ago for $1 at the bank). 

I have a background in finance so there's always a part of me trying to figure out which coins are likely to appreciate the most over the long term. I genuinely love numismatics though. From what I've read and seen so far, it would appear that key/semi-key dates have the best track records. I just try to collect key dates from the series I enjoy the most. I may attempt to go for the entire Barber Half Dollar series though. I think the series strikes a good balance of difficulty and value. 

Anyway, I could be completely wrong with my key dates=better return. I'm curious if anyone has ever visited this site: 

https://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/

Thanks for the insight RWB. I definitely appreciate it. If you have any recommendations on where to learn more about branch mint proofs, I do a lot of reading and I'd be interested in learning more.

On a different note, I'm becoming obsessed with the 1914 Barber Half Dollar Proof and would love to find a great example that doesn't destroy my bank account in the process. I've seen a couple available but I'm being picky. I also told the owner of the local coin shop if he comes across one to let me know. I like buying raw coins when possible but obviously have to be able to trust the seller.

Thanks for posting that article. I think I did eventually come across the same article when I was searching but it's a good reference nonetheless. 

Based on the info, it sounds like a branch mint proof would not be considered for an "SP" grade because specimens don't have the same characteristics of a proof strike. They're essentially "One-offs" typically handled with a higher degree of care compared to a circulation-strike... hence the "specimen" grade. 

With respect to branch mint proofs, the article is a bit open-ended in that it leaves room for additional, future insight as if this is a topic with many unknowns. This was ultimately part of the problem I ran into during my research in that I was looking for a book or detailed analysis of branch mint proofs. 

Another question I have, would all branch mint proofs, if submitted to a TPG, be graded using "PF" assuming the TPG did not make a mistake? I don't know if a proof-strike from the San Francisco Mint would exhibit the same characteristics as a proof from Philadelphia. In addition, since proofs were only supposed to be created in Philadelphia (using my 1897-S Barber Half as an example), could a Specimen grade be used instead? The nature of a branch mint proof being created is a rare event so in theory, there should be a reason behind the deviation in procedure in minting circulation strike coinage. Even if the reason is unknown, if the characteristics exhibited by the coin are unique enough to set it apart from other MS coinage, would this situation warrant a PF or SP grade?

I realize there's a lot to unpack here but I do find this to be an interesting topic. Also, please understand that I've always been operating under the assumption that my 1897-S Barber is NOT a branch mint proof. I just feel like it has such an exceptional strike that it could be more than just a PL circulation strike coin. Expert opinions are welcome and you won't offend me with criticism as long as it's constructive.

Forgive me if this is a bit of a stretch with respect to staying on-topic, however, when I purchased an 1897-S Barber Half graded "MS-63 PL" (NGC), the selling was claiming that some people would try to market the coin as a "Branch-Mint Proof." I've only been collecting for a couple years and honestly wasn't sure what he meant at the time (I do now). I just bought the coin because I like to collect Key-Dates (term is loosely applied) of mostly U.S. Dollars and Half Dollars with Barber Halves being my top priority over the past six months approx.

The question I have is if the coin I purchased was in fact a "Branch-Mint Proof," would that mean it would be eligible for an "SP" grade? Also, would documentation be required to determine if a coin was a "Branch-Mint Proof" or can this be determined by analysis of the coin itself?

I spent quite a bit of time reading up on "Branch-Mint Proofs" before and after I purchased the coin and it was surprisingly difficult to find specific details on this subject.

Anyway, any feedback would be much appreciated, including criticism (constructive). I'm here to learn and have "A Guide Book of Barber Silver Coins 2nd Edition" (Bowers) right next to me. Thank you.

It's a very nice Ike regardless of the type. Send it in for grading if you really want to know and repost? 

I like Ikes and got most of mine by going to the bank and asking if they had any. Many of them had little wear or abuse.

Where did you get the coin from if you don't mind me asking?

On 5/4/2020 at 10:52 PM, Truly Clean said:

Another new Morgan.  Hope I'm not boring everybody.  I only do Morgans (and I hope I can stop after that).  I COULD show pics of my first grandson instead  

This is now my most costly but not my favorite.  

 

This is a great looking coin and I'll admit I'm a little jealous. I collect "key/semi-key date" (term used loosely) US coinage and the 1892-CC has been high on my want list for a while. 

I'm surprised this didn't receive an MS64+ grade. The reverse is stunning but obverse still really nice despite the minor blemishes.