Teddy R

I've been doing some research on moderns and have come across a few eye openers in the census.

I guess there is a thing called lowball sets for whatever reason???

My area of interest would not change but my targeted grades of VG/F/VF would shift to Top Pop's . I could also fill those 2 or 3 unobtanium holes.

I would then have to figure out what to do next because completion would take about 2 weeks instead of the rest of my life.

I appreciate all the responses, thanks to all.

I went to a local show last week. Found a 14-D in F but it had a black discoloration all around Abe. Found a 31-S in 63 RB but it had a black spot on the reverse.

My conclusion, I will see what comes along and when I find the right coin, that's the one that will fill the slot. Might eventually end up with both.

If anyone is interested, I converted a custom set I already had into my new Type Set. You can see it here https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/wcm/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=31550

On 6/10/2023 at 6:58 PM, Moxie15 said:

A type set with all key dates is a cool beyond belief concept!

As to your question of 14-D or 31-S, a 31-S would be easier to achieve and the money you save can be spent on harder coins. Either way it is your collection and it has to please you and no one else. I will be impressed either way you go.

I've decided to go quality over quantity with my collection. It will probably be a custom set as looking over the 20th Century Type in the Registry shows at least 16 of the 39 slots have no key coin. Some of the coins in the set will be mid grade but I will work towards continuing improvement. I plan on outlining how I got to this point in a journal when I have more time (winter).

On 6/10/2023 at 6:36 PM, Sandon said:

    1931-S cents tend to be in much higher grade than 1914-Ds. There were fewer collectors of coins by date and mint in 1914 than in the 1930s. The vast majority of the 1914-D mintage went into circulation and stayed there for many years until many collectors started looking for them, while much of the 1931-S mintage at first stayed in banks due to the Depression and then was hoarded in uncirculated condition by dealers and collectors. It is said that one Maurice Scharlack alone hoarded some 200,000 uncirculated 1931-S cents, over 23% of the original 866,000 mintage! See S. Taylor, The Standard Guide to the Lincoln Cent (3d ed. 1992) at 44-45, 82-83; D. W. Lange, The Complete Guide to Lincoln Cents (2005) at 115-16, 163-64.  Most of the mintage of 1931-S cents likely still exist in Extremely Fine to Uncirculated grades, while many of the 1914-Ds were lost in circulation or worn down to low grades and are often impaired.

    I don't support the hoarding or use in type sets of "key date" coins, which creates an unnatural demand for them with artificially high prices that may be vulnerable to crashes when prices are seen to peak and hoards are dispersed. Even 1914-Ds in uncirculated grades are probably no rarer than many other uncirculated mintmarked cents of the 1911-27 era but sell for very high prices due to the perception of the 1914-D as a "key". You might want to consider a well-struck uncirculated mintmarked 1911-27 cent in brown or red and brown preservation over either a circulated 1914-D or an uncirculated 1931-S for your type set. You may discover that finding one is a challenge.

Great info, thanks for sharing.

I doubt my humble collection of key coins will create a Hunt Brothers type shift in values. I'm no Maurice Scharlack, one of each is good for me.

I'm working on a US 20th Century Type set with Key Coins. I've been going back and forth between the 14-D and the 31-S lincoln cent for the "Wheat Penny" slot.

The 31-S has that desirable sub one million mintage. The 31-S can be purchased in 63 R for the same money as a F/VF 14-D. The 31-S has appreciated more over the last 20/25 years.

So...let's hear your thoughts and opinions.

Swing by the folks from Heritage Auctions. They will be at Long Beach.

On 5/9/2023 at 12:09 PM, Coinbuf said:

Not to burst your bubble, but dealers buy from each other at every show before the public has an opportunity to step in the show, that includes FUN.   A lot of this action happens on dealer setup day, having the early bird access helps but this dealer to dealer buying has been the norm for ever.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from going to FUN, I have never been myself but from talking to other collectors the JAN FUN show seems to be the biggest show of the year.   So even with all that dealer buying you may still have opportunities that you did not have at CSNS.   If I were going to travel for only one show a year, that is the show I would put at the top of my list to see.

My bubble is intact. As a 40 plus year veteran of other types of collectibles shows I'm well aware of dealer to dealer transactions.

As I stated in an earlier post, no PNG day and a reasonably priced early bird pass at FUN may not stack the deck in my favor but it can't hurt.

The big time dealers had way too much time to clean the place out at CSNS and that was confirmed by dealer's I spoke to and posts on social media.

On 5/7/2023 at 7:45 PM, VKurtB said:

CSNS management is presently involved in a power struggle. Just as the entire hobby is in a struggle between dealer desires and collector desires, that battle is presently “on steroids” at Central States. Even the President and Vice President are at odds. Let this pass and CSNS might regain some appeal. Right now, dealers hold sway at CSNS.  I’m VERRRRRRY involved in seeing that is NOT the case going forward at the ANA and its shows. 

Interesting.

Thanks for considering the collector, your efforts are appreciated.

On 4/30/2023 at 5:17 PM, Teddy R said:

I was a little disappointed. Granted, the items I am looking for are tough pieces, not impossible but not on every table either. I was told by more than one Dealer that the items I inquired about went fast to other Dealers. I was there Thursday but I guess you need to do the early bird thing.

That being said, I'll go again next year. I did pick up 5 coins.

After further review, I will not attend this show again.

This was my first big show. I thought I would be taking my collecting to the next level, lesson learned.

I can only afford to travel to one big show a year. I'm thinking I may do the FUN show next year. No PNG day and early bird is only $100 as compared to $385 at CSNS.

On 5/6/2023 at 3:57 PM, powermad5000 said:

I did see one dealer review as well and apparently they had a "low buck" section upstairs which I was unaware of. Every prior year the reason I did not go upstairs was because it was all Heritage auctions stuff and big money coins (I'm not a fan of 20% buyers premiums and I also go to the show to buy raw coins). Perhaps I missed a lot of inventory upstairs as well. But I agree @VKurtB. I noticed all of the PNG stuff going on and that wasn't like that in years past either.

You didn't miss anything. I did buy one coin but the upstairs was cleaned out also.

On 5/4/2023 at 4:12 PM, VKurtB said:

I never go to ANY major coin show primarily to shop. I go to live auctions for that. I go to major coin shows to learn, exhibit, judge exhibits, interact, participate in committee and board meetings, attend talks, and GIVE talks. Also, I work FOR the ANA at ANA shows, and work the ANA’s table(s) at non-ANA shows. I also buy at some minuscule to regional shows, but nearly never at major shows.

Yep, I went to buy but I sure ended up learning. 

On 5/5/2023 at 9:48 AM, VKurtB said:

So I guess that CSNS is now the “host organism” for the parasite known as the PNG pre-show. The ANA used to suffer from the ravages of that blood-sucker. Careful excision of it worked wonders. Some small parasitic infection remains in the minds of former participants each August. I’m not quite certain if it’s bacterial, viral, or perhaps a spirochete. It’s nasty any way you look at it. 

Yes and after reading your post and doing some homework it appears PNG day is what cleaned the show out before the general public was allowed in. It appears the dealer that posted their purchases spent 50 - 100k. If several dealers did the same, we have our answer about the lack of inventory as mentioned by the OP

A Dealer has posted their CSNS experience in another section of the Forums. The post confirms my suspicions. This is a Tuesday/Wednesday wholesale event and some dealers hang around Thursday/Friday/Saturday to offer slow moving inventory and double markups. Looks like my first CSNS will be my last. I'll be money ahead just giving a dealer my want list.

I would still like to hear from those that attended Friday and or Saturday

On 5/1/2023 at 12:36 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

How many tables ?  I saw a few empties at FUN 2020 but you're talking 1 or 2 maybe 3 tables out of 600-800.  Nothing major.

There's always going to be a few last-second cancellations.

I didn't count but I'm going to say a dozen give or take

We saw unoccupied tables Thursday with showcases and lights on them. Can anyone that was there on Friday or Saturday say if they were occupied on those days? Wondering if they just sold to other dealers on Wednesday, then bailed?

I was a little disappointed. Granted, the items I am looking for are tough pieces, not impossible but not on every table either. I was told by more than one Dealer that the items I inquired about went fast to other Dealers. I was there Thursday but I guess you need to do the early bird thing.

That being said, I'll go again next year. I did pick up 5 coins.

After reading an article in a coin publication, I realized I had ballast instead of a collection. I decided to go quality over quantity. I rolled a lot of common items into a few key coins that I really wanted. It was difficult, some of the coins were gifts and inheritances. For example, I traded 30 years of (mid 60's to mid 90's) mint and proof sets for an MS 62 RB,1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent. I did add a few bucks to make the deal. It's so much more pleasing to own this coin than have a suit case full of $5 mint sets I never looked at. Some of the sets were gifts from my late Father but I feel good knowing he played a major role in me having a coin I never thought I would own. My selling and some buying has been with a local Dealer and Coin Shows. I have made some online auction purchases and they are fun to search for deals. When I check out, I'll leave a legacy, not a burden.

Thanks Ali, worked great!

Hello,

Is there a way to add a named slot in Custom Sets for a coin that is not yet owned? It would make the set more interesting if everyone could see the goal.

Thanks!

Thanks to all for the responses.

15 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

There is no one size fits all answer to your question.  There are many ways to clean a coin and this effects can appear different on a copper coin vs a silver coin; and again different on a modern clad coin vs an 18th century coin.  I would suggest you attempt to find a coin club in your area, within that club you may be able to find a knowledgeable collector that can help mentor you with this.  If that is not an option then looking at the photos on auction sites like Heritage of coins that are slabbed as cleaned vs the same coin in a straight graded holder will help you to expand your knowledge of what to look for.

Would you care to expand on why you think you have a problem with not being able to spot a cleaned coin?

Sure. I recently sent 12 coins to NGC for grading. Most I thought were fairly nice or I wouldn't have submitted them. Five came back as cleaned. I could see someone of my skill level missing something on the UNC/AU coins but it's beyond me what to look for on the 13-S T-1 XF Nickel I sent in. First off, why would someone clean such a coin???

Can anyone suggest a resource that will educate me about how to tell if coins have been cleaned? I would also like to learn more about grading mint state coins.