Henri Charriere

I am a mere sapling to the grove of sequoia thriving on the bourse course but, never having been to a coin show or convention, two questions come to mind. One, do these presentations have overseers or security aides with lapel pins 📌 enforcing the rules and regulations, discreetly, and Two, do the dealers you refer to check-out formally with show brass, or simply pack up unobtrusively and waltz out like rats with no notice whatsoever? I would ask VKurtB, but he's too busy taking pictures. 😉

I no longer comment on grading standards because buyers and sellers both regard them as opinions backed by whatever evidence they can summon. Some devise their own grading scale, as one seller on a thread still in progress did, leaving it up to the prospective buyer to decide its universal validity and acceptability. I personally have a problem transitioning from Sheldon to a seller who shelves it entirely for UNC followed by any number of plus + signs, each of which is supposed to delineate a specific phenomenon. Apparently, Mint State with 10 theoretical distinctions is inadequate for his purposes. (Unilaterally disqualifying buyers from submitting comments based on the submission of reviews is the height of arrogance, but I digress.) What I would like to know from knowledgeable readers is what they think of an offering described succinctly, as follows: French 20-franc gold rooster (or Coq Marianne) 1906 PCGS-MS63 SUP/FDC/ EF/ BU 460.75 USD. The problem with this listing should be obvious in the absence of familiarity with a chart helpfully provided, stating: "TABLEAU DES ETATS DE CONVERSION ET LEUR CORRESONDANCES GRADING STANDARDS." To begin with, mixing certified coins like MS-63, with SUP (Superbe) from AU-55 to MS-62, and FDC (Fleur de Coin from MS-65 to MS-70, then EF (Extremely Fine) and finally to BU (Brilliant Uncirculant) -- 5 grades to describe one coin! -- is not something a serious collector should expect to contend with in dealing with a consortium of coin shops of irreproachable virtue. A coin, as astutely pointed out by our illustrious member @MarkFeld recently on another thread, if deemed Uncirculated, is Mint State by mutual assent. And using AU and EF in the same breath is downright insulting. If I've caught you in a bad mood, dear reader, please feel free to recount your own highly irregular experience here. 🐓

You have been vindicated. On a hunch, I checked that 1923 Peace Dollar thread just now only to find out bidding has begun in earnest and the actual retail price of the coin in question is well north of $25.00 -- exclusive of postage. To paraphrase Gene Hackman in the movie, "Enemy of the State," I must be incredibly smart or incredibly stupid. We are easily talking $30-plus for a coin which, after time-consuming travel and deliberate examination will easily exceed the alloted time limit for free returns. For members' information, most of the 12 or so bids made, inch-worm style, were placed by me and it is difficult to ascertain how much farther up they will go. I believe we have well-exceeded the point where foolishness resides in all its magnificent splendor -- to simply make or discredit a point and the saddest part is the coin in question already does not justify its cost. There are certainly some slick operators out there. So, in closing, I regret to inform @MarkFeld that $20. doesn't cut it and neither does $30. What we do have is a clown laughing all the way to the bank -- with many more hours yet to go and plenty more in stock where that came from.

[See the prior post...]

No, the substantive response lies right above you, excerpted in pertinent part.

No, I never said I would. And neither will the losing bidder(s). To illustrate my strategy -- noting bidders gravitate toward even numbers -- I expect to be the "winner," by a nose: $20.02. But if that bid proves insufficient, I will modify my strategy accordingly. eBay is a game I learned to play well. My curiosity knows no bounds.

If I so much as think about writing about my wife, this guy will show up:. Now, as regarding @RWB's prophecy, certifications are mounting steadily. Of the nearly 8 billion people on this planet, I would estimate, conservatively speaking, some 3/4, or 6 billion are well aware of my interest in securing the finest Roosters possible the majority of which lie out there somewhere, likely in Europe, awaiting discovery by a young boy or girl who has yet to be introduced to coin collecting and TPGS. I appreciate your kind comments. 🐓

Without my mentor, I never would have learned about the Trial of the Pyx and other things too numerous to mention. 🐓

It was not my intention to derail a perfectly good thread, but I viewed the vast inventory of the seller in question and what I found was somebody who bastardized the Sheldon Scale and invented his own grading system and, quite frankly, deserves to be discredited and discarded. The more you look, the more Red Flags🚩 you find. @RWB, the OP, in his initial post, cited the seller's description, and asked: "What do you think and why?" I upped his request a notch by hoping to make this a hands-on experience, by acquiring what Just Bob has aptly termed "junk silver" and making it available to any interested party at my expense, postage, shipping, insurance if the USPS deems it necessary, in short, the whole rigamarole. I do hope other comments will be submitted in the interim per the OP's request, and will keep members abreast of any developments. I, myself, lacking appraisal experience hope to learn a few things I was unaware of. It's never too late to learn and the outlay is minimal. We all benefit and the pleasure is all mine. 🐓

Actually, that bid was not mine. My strategy is to wait -- and pounce. Sometimes I place a bid, depending on increments required, at the next acceptable dollar level + one, two, or three cents. Other times, I will go straight to melt to surprise and eliminate the bargain hunters + a few cents. If the highest bid, is close to melt value, say, $18., and two-dollar increments are mandatory, I will bid $20.02. Your average person, unaware of that will bid $20., find out that is insufficient, and decide to abandon further bidding. Any way you look at it, I will win [ideally] by a few cents, but lose because the coin + postage will not have been worth my time and expense -- unless silver skyrockets as I expect it to inevitably.

@rrantique An incomparable manifestation of a peculiar affliction for which there is no known cure: "Halfitis Maximus" (I cannot recall the scientific name). Great collection!

@Mohawk: Yes, to the ever-lasting consternation of those who've somehow managed to tolerate and survive my acerbic tongue and wit, I will maintain a lower profile while maintaining my membership. I may even limit my remarks in deference to @Oldhoopster. The biggest shock to me in the past two years is inadvertently breaking the spell roosters have had on me and suddenly realizing I have a wife and am married! She is quieter than a church mouse. Besides that, I would appreciate living long enough to see if @RWB's prophecy comes true, the emergence of MS-67 graded Roosters in the "original" series, 1899-1906, as submissions for certifications continue.

This is one of the more brilliant deductions I've seen on this site since at least the Paleozoic era. By jove, I believe you're right!

Fortunately, I am ignorant. I will only need 3 mins with my forbidden 30-power loupe to make my assessment. @VKurtBdemands in-hand inspection and his wish is my command. I am assuming all costs and every member so interested can get a shot at this without artificial time constraints. I greatly appreciate everyone's indulgence in accommodating me. And if a Rooster by chance surfaces unexpectedly in all the hullabaloo, so much the better. Like I am fond of saying, I truly love this place. eBay can be tricky. No doubt . But if someone outbids me, I will know I am not the only certifiably insane person in cyberspace. Good nite to all, and to all a good nite! 🐓

[PM: Incidentally, I believe 3.7 cms. is the norm. My previous 4.2 is now 4.3, but I am taking it easy. A 5.5 is cause for concern. Everything else is under control. I trust you are doing just fine but doubt I could manage an itinerary like yours. All the best!] 🐓

Cruising the internet utilizing Google and relating the neither here nor there terminology irresponsibly used. None of the pricing is realistic. I no longer own a Red Book and do not know, much less, have ever seen a Greysheet. (What I do have, somewhere I believe, are tickets to the Beatles concert at Shea Stadium (1965, unused, but common) Seattle Slew's winning ticket for the Triple Crown at Belmont Racetrack (1977) and three intact tickets for Woodstock (1969, unused.) I do not have a single authoritative source to consult on coin pricing, U.S. or Foreign, but intend to submit the winning bid on the 1923 Peace Dollar @RWB cited so interested NGC members can conduct a proper post-mortem and arrive at a definitive diagnosis as to the claim(s) being made by the seller. After all is said and done, and everyone has had an opportunity to conduct an excursion into alleged incusions, and the like, I will gladly donate the piece which I suspect will not be worth the cost of certification. I do not know if the seller, who boasts quite a collection of similar coins suffering from the same malady, is palming off an authentic replica or genuine counterfeit (terms our Just Bob objects to) but we will know in fairly short order. I appreciate your interest. 😉

What's the approved treatment or cure for this? It's already worn; would a little gentle cut-and-cover or buffing help?

First time I've ever seen this coin up close. The old Red Books don't do it any justice. There is pronounced definition to the stars and numbers. I would imagine something this fine would be extraordinarily rare. Great find!

There is only one way to settle this matter firmly and with finality and that is to buy the coin in question. But first, a few random "facts"... First and foremost, the coin's melt value is $18.57 based on a spot of $24.01, as of today, August 30, 2021. In "decent condition" a genuine 1923 is worth anywhere from $20 to $30. A VF is worth $25; an EF is worth $27 with an "UNC" worth $30 and a "MS" worth $60. (I know. Don't ask.) An MS-65 is worth $110. (And for those interested, a source I never heard of and was not otherwise identified, claims the finest known 1922, minted a year earlier, is worth $41,125. All are welcome to dispute these figures none of which seem realistic. When I read the wordplay on incuse, courtesy of @DWLange, I wanted to recuse myself but loose ends do not agree with me so I'm in it to win it. I should know by Friday whether I have placed the winning bid and, will promptly forward it, at my expense in the interest of knowledge, to anyone who is interested in examining it in hand and thereby put an end to what I regard as an exercise in [expletive deleted] futility. Stay tuned...

I wonder if the '88 quarter and '88 half were owned by the same person at one time or other. 🤔

I am inclined to lean toward @Coinbuf's alibi. Don't forget, he was in the midst of recovering from a serious wreck and was likely under the influence of painkillers. The only member champing at the bit and cleared to travel internationally is our very own @VKurtB. I miss @Ratzie33's fastidious quirkiness.

As it's been said, "The road to perdition is paved with good intentions." Little would be accomplished debating the merits or demerits of a coin essentially devoid of melt value. If anyone feels that strongly about DiMPLes and FreCKLes on women, they should REPORT THIS ITEM to eBay and CONTACT THE SELLER with a piece of his mind making full use of the 1,000 character spaces he has so generously provided. Of greater interest to me, and possibly others is the offering being made by Canyon City Coins farther down the page: A 1921-P NGC MS-65, PEACE SILVER DOLLAR, BLAZING BLAST WHITE. The former Peace Dollar, as of this writing, racked up 0 bids and 0 bidders, with 4 days and 6 hrs. remaining on the clock. That skepticism speaks volumes. The latter piece is being offered for $4,899.95, OBO, with free shipping. Granted, Quintus is but an amateur. But let's be honest here. With a verdict already rendered on the former (as can readily be surmised by the comments thus far accrued) would you rather beat a double zero (with more exclamation points on its description page than silver dollars have reeds) or scrutinize a coin worthy of a professional autopsy from the finest minds in numismatics. 😉

[Now I know how Alexander Woollcott, long deceased, felt when he praised a production to the stars in his own inimical fashion only to have it dismissed out of hand with what amounts to an SKU: a capital letter and hyphen followed by three numbers. I guess that's show business.] 🐓

@GBrad... Okay, alright. I'll skip the old cents and move on the the s mint dimes. (Too bad silver coins are off-topic. I'd love to buff that silly pedestaled mint mark off a new Morgan for no other reason than because it serves no useful purpose. Then with @Alex in PA.'s permission, I can forward it to our dear old friend @Ratzie33 for sale. Preferably on etsy. For Five Grand! Who knows, maybe there's a Fair Market Value for unique coins? 🤔

@RWB: And to think I paid over $400. for the first two. Let's see now... I'm thisclose to becoming 70. If Kitco's ever optimistic prognostications are true, I may be able to recoup my investment in fifty years when I'll be 120, right? (Is that @GoldFinger1969 I hear snickering in the corner?) Boy, you sure know how to hurt a guy! 🐓