powermad5000

While the photo without a secondary size reference in it to show the OP the difference in size, the first thought I had when the OP posted the side by side was a Texas cent. However, being this cent is only 1mm larger, it is either possible someone gave up on the hammering of making a Texas cent or the coin simply got run over on some smooth concrete and then circulated some more with the circulation wear eliminating any evidence of it being run over a few times in a parking lot.

Thank you for the photo updates here. Very helpful! 

As others have stated that is post mint damage. The eagle took a hit on the tail.

Post mint damage = less value.

Mint error for strike through = more value.

This on your coin is not a strike through error as those do not have the appearance as there is on the coin you have posted here. I can see on your coin along the edges of the hit where there is metal piled up at the edge from the impact of whatever did the damage. Strike through errors do not have this metal piled along the edge of the defect and some strike throughs even have some of the detail faintly showing from the strike in some cases. On your coin, I also can see other hits from circulation although not as large of a hit as on the eagles tail.

In the case of this dollar, there were many collectors saving these coins singularly and by the roll when they first came out. Superior examples are readily available and for low cost as many were saved in mint state. With the circulation hits and the minor "chatter" in the fields on both sides of your coin, I would say it is worth face value.

On 3/24/2024 at 1:12 AM, cobymordet said:

PM5K, twice today you have dragged me to the light of my gross oversight.  No DDO, just DDR.

I was not trying to call you out onto the carpet. I was just wondering if there was a source I had overlooked. Even I make mistakes sometimes and overlook things. Seems this happens mostly when I am beyond tired from working. I received a day off Friday so with my three day weekend ongoing and having gotten an 11 hour and a 10 hour sleep shift in the last two days, I am feeling sharp and alert!  

Well, there has been a development on my end here @Henri Charriere!!!! My phone just requested to download an app called Norton Genie.

With it, all I have to do is take a picture of the screen, and the AI feature of the app will check and test the link for me and let me know if it is safe or not.

For the future, you do not have to compromise your own security on my behalf as I now have AI on my side! I can now safely go to links if I so choose. It is a bright, new day over here!

Don't worry, though, I will always remember your act of kindness putting yourself at risk on my behalf. Now if I could only locate that last Rooster you need...

On 3/24/2024 at 12:19 AM, cobymordet said:

Maybe I need glasses, that I cannot deny, but where oh where is the bag in there?

It is inside the little circle on the right just above the blue NGC letters.

Hello and welcome to the forum!

On 3/24/2024 at 12:17 AM, cobymordet said:

there is a minor DDO for the 1972 quarter.

Where did you find this? I checked Variety Vista and Wexlers and neither site had a DDO for a 1972 D much less one for a 1972 (P). I am just wondering what site you were on that had this listed.

To the OP, from what I am able to ascertain from a search, there is no listed 1972 D Washington Quarter DDO either in NGC's Variety Plus (this website), Variety Vista, or Wexlers. I found a listing for a 1972 D Washington Quarter DDR on Wexlers but that is not what is being discussed here.

In light of that, I took a pic of your coin so I could zoom in on what you might be seeing, and it is of my opinion that there is some minor strike doubling on the left of the L of LIBERTY and on the face and head of George, but it is not legitimate doubling which would be given a variety attribution.

Hello and welcome to the forum!

What I see on your coin is 100% post mint damage. To me, it almost looks like that is a counterstamp of a number 8. I do remember watching some kids in grade school who made their 8's by making two small O's. It could also be possible it is two counterstamps of a tiny 'O' or a small zero. Either way, it was intentionally done after it left the mint and not struck that way in the striking chamber.

Hello and welcome!

The 1982 D Lincoln cent is a Large Date Bronze which should have a weight of 3.11g. If it were a zinc, it would weigh about 2.5g. It is possible it is struck on a planchet that is slightly underweight and it is also possible your scale is not properly calibrated. Either way, it is not the "unicorn" cent everybody is looking for.

I am no expert on your 20 pence so I will let others give their opinion of that coin of yours.

I was unaware of these until now. I would be of the opinion that it is a piece of an original bag as I don't think they would go through the trouble of the special label, but what bag that held what coins is left open. I suppose there is some type of provenance to the holder as is, otherwise NGC would not include this in a certified holder. Maybe this would be a good question to inquire on the Ask NGC forum. If you do find out, please come back to this and advise. I would like to know if it is actually from an original Morgan dollar bag. 

On 3/23/2024 at 2:56 PM, Henri Charriere said:

My intemperate broadside was launched at the Power guy.  Just making light of the good sport who strongly detests counterfeits and evidently shrinks from opening links. I am not risk-averse, so I did the footwork for him,

Ha! I thought that to be directed my way.

We would have a better world minus the fakes. As we would have a better world minus many bad things. But the world is the way it is so I find it best to try to navigate around some things. Happy to see you HC doing the Norton or McAfee test run on it on my behalf. I appreciate your boldness to forge ahead into areas where I may not go myself! I will have to update my list of your endearing qualities that I find charming. 

Don't take it so personal.

I've been hacked about 4 times and what it ended up showing me was on all but the last time, it was something I did to open myself to it. The last time it happened to me, I am not sure what they were going after because I am just a worker bee who is very low on the wealth totem pole, but those had to be some real pros at it.

If it helps you understand better, I don't even open links from family. Once you get hacked several times, you kind of just go into a "lockdown" mode. It becomes an automatic trigger response.

On 3/23/2024 at 12:49 PM, Mustacheman said:

I apologize for being confused on your intentions. A lot of people just bash you for being wrong or cocky. I wasn’t trying to be cocky but I was definitely wrong. I thought the expert I went to just didn’t have a good magnifying glass with him at the time hence why I thought what I saw and asked for other opinions. My bad my man.

No offense taken. Seeing as we are on the internet, it probably comes off more as so, but even in real life, I guess I can seem a little "dry". We are all good sir! 

On 3/23/2024 at 5:53 AM, Noob115 said:

I don't know if I'm allowed to share ungraded coins here

You are most welcome to share ungraded coins here. In fact, many people do to ask their questions about them, as well there are some members here who (believe it or not) do not submit their coins.

Feel free to come back and post whatever you like.

Well, it depends @Henri Charriere. What if it was Pennie's (attribution : female) cents?    

I just reread that and you are correct @JKK. It did not come out the way I intended. I shall edit immediately. 

If you submit the coin for Variety Plus services and pay the appropriate fee, then NGC will include the FS number on the label if it is a well known variety and they accept the FS number for the specific variety. I have several slabs graded with the appropriate FS number on them. Here is just one of them. You can check your coin in Variety Plus before submitting it to see what numbers they recognize for a specific variety. Note, NGC does not accept all of the numbers you may find on sites like Wexlers or from the Cherrypickers Guide.

Hello and welcome to the forum and to the hobby!

I would like to address the points you have made in this post.

#1 - Coins do not have to be certified to be worth more than just face value. Just walk around a coin show (especially a major one) and you will see tons of raw coins with values in the hundreds, thousands, or tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Those who know coins can check them for what they are and know just how rare or not rare they are without having them graded. They will also know the value of them raw.

#2 - Coin values are not solely determined by grading. See #1 above. Collectors who know what they are looking at with a raw coin in hand with proper knowledge will know the level of rarity and value of what they have in hand without grading from a TPG. Collectors will know what is FMV pricing versus hype pricing versus dealer pricing versus rip off pricing. We speak of this side of collecting constantly here in this forum with people posting damaged coins thinking they are super rare and highly valuable errors.

#3 - All error coins are unique. The thing is damaged coins are simply not errors, no matter what seller says they are. We see plenty of purported error coins being posted here which are simply damaged coins. Some are made to try to deceive, some are made as experiments, some are made accidentally. People who collect errors, which is a special niche in the hobby, will know what is and what is not an error without it having to be graded. Raw coins that are errors are worth money without being graded, however, depending on the error, some types of errors are considered more common than others (clips and strike throughs being common versus a Washington quarter struck on a Mexican Peso planchet as an example). Also, the condition of such errors is just as much a determination of value as it is with normally struck coins.

#4 - You are 100% correct on this point. Which is why we advise people to steer clear of these self purported expert videos. On YouTube, however, there are some legitimate videos with educational content worth watching made by NGC, PCGS, ANACS, the US Mint and US Treasury.

On 3/22/2024 at 1:04 PM, Noob115 said:

I'm posting this to help newbies realize that coin collecting won't likely net you any massive profit, and should be enjoyed as the thrill of the hunt that it is. I made the mistake of thinking I could change my life potentially and bail myself out of a situation and I let that ruin the hobby for me.. Now I'm trying to get back to the hobby and have a different outlook I currently have a 1918 and a 1920 wheat penny and when I look at it I can't help to wonder where they've been, who they've been with and all they've seen in 104+ years that's the mindset old coins should bring, just the what if factor...

I hope this wasn't to long winded and helps newer collectors in avoiding the rut I personally fell into...

I am glad to see you did post this though and it hopefully makes more people aware of these untruthful videos posted on YouTube and other sites. Unfortunately anyone can post a video on there whether or not the information in the video has been vetted and is accurate and correct or whether it is simply some of the garbage out there.

Glad to hear you learned from your experience and also glad to hear you are continuing your endeavors in the hobby!  

This is an old post. You would be best to start a new thread with your coin.

That said, from what you have provided, your cent is NOT bronze. It is in fact in line with the weight of a zinc small date cent which is supposed to weigh around 2.5g. I am not sure how you arrived at a weight of 2.82 grams with the coin in the holder unless you came up with this weight before it was submitted to PCGS. If it was derived in the holder, there will be a variance of the weight of the plastic from holder to holder. If it was weighed before being holdered, it could have been struck on an overweight planchet but I would also then question the calibration of your scale.

You cannot simply look at a coin and determine its metal content and confidently say what type of metal it is solely on a visual basis.

Even all these things set aside, a bronze cent of this date would weigh between 3.05g-3.08g. Therefore, there is no way your cent is a bronze transitional.

One more thing to note, in your attempts to remove environmental damage, you did further damage to the coin. If this was truly one of the unicorn cents everybody is seeking, your actions would have caused what otherwise would have been an expensive coin to become highly devalued. In the future, do not attempt to clean your coins or use methods to "improve" the surfaces as they will only damage the surface.

Hello and welcome!
 

I note a lack of responses to your query. That is probably due to the fact that most of the volunteers on here will not click on links. I myself are one of them. I simply cannot trust links provided in this digital age of malware and cyber security so I don't click on them. If you post pictures instead of a link, I am sure you will get more responses to your question.

On 3/22/2024 at 2:22 AM, VinD91 said:

I never meant to make it sound like I didn't believe anyone, I am just looking to learn. I am not out to try to get rich off of error coins. I just found it as a fun hobby. I am thankful for the help I am receiving

This is a great place to come to and learn. And this hobby is fun. It becomes not fun for people when they follow misinformation, however. When you come here, you will get solid correct information. I hope you keep going in the hobby as the longer you stick with it, the more fun it gets.

On 3/21/2024 at 7:10 PM, Mustacheman said:

This is true and this is the key indication that it is indeed a WAM. But I’m still so confused about that pooling of die leaning closer towards the M. It doesn’t make sense to me. Of course the machinery is not perfect to make what they want to make on the spot but could this has been a CLOSE that was turned to a WIDE? That is what I’m trying to have answered.

This is what I responded to. In my response, I did not give you my life story. I simply gave you an answer. Sorry you took offense to my response as condescending. I tried to explain it as I know is all.

It is not too close to call. It is not even close to being a CAM. In a cent with CAM, the letters A and M are nearly touching at the bases. On your cent, there is plenty of gap between the bases of those letters.

I have never heard of "die pooling" in my 45+ years of collecting and I do not think it is something that has just been discovered after hundreds of years of minting of coinage. Once a coin is struck from a set of dies, the details on the surfaces of the struck coin cannot move over time. Also, once a die has been manufactured, those details are set in place until the die breaks or wears out and is replaced. I am not sure what this concept is of die elements moving over time. Basically, what I am saying is a CAM cannot shift on the die to become a WAM. It just is not possible for that to happen.

I have been collecting for 45+ years and know this was not produced in the mint striking chamber. I am also in the camp this was a vice job. One dead giveaway is the incuse and backwards lettering on the memorial. A coin with raised lettering was pressed into the reverse. Dies are made with a negative image so the struck coin becomes a positive image. This means the die is made by removing metal from the die making a recess for the metal from the strike to flow into. If somehow a coin was double struck after being rotated, the design elements would still be raised above the surface, not incuse.

This book you referenced has been becoming more mentioned on the forums here with accompanying requests to review coins that are damaged intentionally or accidentally. It seems whoever authored this book had little to no experience with coins as they are attributing damage to being errors. I would recommend you to throw out this book and purchase a Redbook of United States Coins as well as a book titled ANA Grading Standards for United States Coins, 7th Edition.

Error collecting is a niche in the hobby and takes its own special advanced education. If you are in doubt on whether a coin is an error, you can try to look it up on the website error-ref.com. If you can't find an example of your coin on that site, it is not an error and most likely damage.

This is a poor example of a counterfeit. The surfaces are terrible. I am not sure if that is from a poor casting process or if it was sandblasted to try to make it look "old". Also the details are very poor and uneven. The circular details on the reverse are not even and are misshapen. They are also quite mushy. Even a genuine strike with significant wear on it would not look like this.

Hopefully that answers your question as to how one could tell it is fake.