GoldFinger1969

1 hour ago, RWB said:

Smithsonian purchased 2 sets of 1933 coins. It's not known if other museums made requests.

Not only the 1933's, Roger, but ALL the dates and mintages.  Granted, it turns out we really didn't need a bag of 1924's or 1927's.  But imagine a bag of 1927-D's....another bag of 1931-S's or 1926-D's. etc.

Add 250 coins to the Survivor numbers and all of a sudden the nearly-impossibles become just very expensive but on the market most of the time.  It appears that a 1927-D goes on the market every 5-10 years or so.  With another 250, you'd probably see them up for sale monthly.

Plus, instead of having to be a billionaire to collect all the coins, or a very wealthy millionaire willing to spend millions, you might be able to collect all the years from 1907-33 for under $1 million.  Or close to it.

Wouldn't THAT be nice !!

KNUCKLEHEADS:  It's so discouraging, a bit sad, and also gets me angry to think that NOBODY said in 1933 or 1934 "Hey, museums or future collectors may want a few of these coins we have here, let's grab a bag of every mintage/year and put 'em aside."

We know from Roger's post on Page 3 that there was a consideration to do that, but it never got implemented.  They dealt with coin collectors....museums....others who collected....and I guess it never 'clicked' in their mind that once melted, the coins are gone FOREVER. 

26 minutes ago, RWB said:

There was a lot of interest in being on the Annual Assay Commission - collectors were not alone. But appointments were made by the President (actually Mint Dire recommended people to Sec Treas, etc.) and there were many applicants in the 1860s and later. Special medals were given to each member and these were highly prized - only 10-15 made and given only to members.

 

 

You would think they would have all wanted at least 1 and probably a few of that year's Saints that they were testing for their own trophy cases.  Certainly would have increased the surivor population. 

You get 5-10 of them....sell a few to your collector friends...give 'em away as gifts.....Bar Mitzvahs, Christmas, birthdays, whatever....

By 1930 or so it was pretty apparent that these coins would always sell at a premium....worst case is face value....not saying I expect someone to ask for a bag of DE's but some of these guys were millionaires at the time (when being a millionaire meant R-I-C-H) and to them buying 5 or 10 would have been pocket change.

Darn !! 

I'm surprised MORE collectors didn't volunteer to do the assay stuff.....they were all wealthy, didn't have jobs probably that took up their time....what better way to get 5 or 10 of any year's coin at face value ?

34 minutes ago, RWB said:

The diary of Congressman William Ashbrook expresses his dismay about dropping gold coins in 1933-34 (he was on the 1934 Annual Assay Commission and bought a bunch of the rare Eagles with knife rim at the 1908 Assay Commission meeting and  was on the 1934 Annual Assay Commission) but by 1934 his personal collection had been sold after most was stolen from his bank vault.

Thanks Roger....I'm going to do more research on Congressman Ashbrook.

1931-D Section:   I love the stories you tell about trying to track down small numbers of these 1930's Saints, Roger.  You don't oversell what you aren't sure about -- i.e., whether coins were domestic or were sent overseas and then came back -- but you give the reader facts and anectdotes and let him/her make up their mind.

Question:  This section mentions tracking of coins and President Hoover's mid-1932 trial balloon that we might go off the gold standard.  That got me thinking.....do you have any idea of the thoughts, discussions, fears, conversations, letters written, etc....by coin collectors of this era and coin dealers who might have been thinking as they hear Hoover contemplate going off the gold standard "Hey, it might pay to stash some coins overseas" or "Hey, I better complete my collection before they make it illegal to buy gold" or "Hey, what do you guys think this means for our business/hobby?"

I mean, I haven't gotten to the 1933 section yet but I can pretty much guess Israel Switt's mindset in 1932 (and maybe earlier), even before losing those 78 coins:  he probably doesn't trust the government and he's probably not only hiding whatever 1933's he has later on, he probably thinks anything gold might be taken (certainly he had to think that way after he lost the 78 Double Eagles) as early as 1932.  

Or maybe not.  But I can tell you if I were a gold collector or dealer back then, and I heard Hoover talking about an end to the gold standard as early as mid-1932 (maybe it was floated earlier, the UK got off in 1931).....I'd be not only saving up a few coins or bars, I'd probably be stashing them somewhere the govt can't find them.

To Make A Long Story Short:  Did these guys discuss or think about the possibility of gold and/or coin ownership changing 180 degrees ? 

One thing is clear from the price grid, even for exclusive coins like super-rare Saints:  Saints (and probably most coins) probably deliver a positive (if not financially-acceptable) return over a long period of time, provided you do NOT buy at an absolute peak (i.e., 1980, 1989-90).....HOWEVER....price gains are so compacted in such a short-time period that you either need luck or a very long time horizon to eak out a positive or decent return.  That assumes you do not market-time an absolute or near bottom.

Even the Saints that are pricey, which presumably were in "very strong hands" (i.e., folks who did not need to sell in the future for financial reasons)....had big price declines several times over the 1976-2015 time period covered in the book.

1 hour ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

The Art and Science of Grading Coins

Available on Amazon

Now that's a book I can make time for as I can use it.  Thanks PF !

After I buy it, refund me your take so I can apply it to that 2021 purchase of a 1907 High Relief Saint.   Hey, every little bit helps......

I'm not an expert on PL/DMPL, but I agree with your observations.

Question:  When the TPGs give out the PL/DMPL designation, they are comparing it to the coins of that era, right ?  Because I just bought a Proof Modern coin and it's super-reflective and I've never seen a Morgan anywhere near as reflective as that.  In fact, come to think of it, I'm surprised the DMPL or DM designation isn't on modern coins because they are so reflective and black.  Mine's a PF70, bought it at FUN.

That's fantastic, Roger....shows all the different sections.  I know a few people were wondering what the layout was.

The COMMENTARY section is usually much larger that what was shown above, if anybody is interested.  It can sometimes run 2 pages or so.  Combined, each yearly coin or mintmark review can run 7-10 pages on average.

16 minutes ago, RWB said:

RE: "I just have to figure how to get the key pages on my smartphone so I can reference them when I'm looking at Saints."  Could you use your phone to photograph the pages you want for show reference? If you have clear images (using high quality JPG of TIF) load these to your PC, then convert these to Adobe Acrobat and run OCR on them. That will give you searchable text for each page along with the page photos. Plus, you can discard bits you don't want or need. Upload those to your phone.  For individuals that's OK....just not for sale or businesses.

Yeah, I could....probably better/easier than scanning the pages because that would damage the book to use my printer/scanner and have to bend the book and then "crunch down" on it like you would using an old Xerox machine.  

I'll need to get my nephew to help because converting using Adobe Acrobat and whatever OCR is are beyond my limited PC skills. 

I'm not worried, when I'm in the market for a coin I probably only need 1-2 of the sections and databases with me.  It's not like I'd be looking at 15-20 different coins.

I'm in the process now of re-creating your database and Akers' for coin mintage/survivors/rarity in Excel.

Should finish the 1933 section by tomorrow, BTW.

3 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Neither of those yet - the book on Saints is high on my list. I just have too many waiting to be read at the moment. I'll probably pick it up sometime this month, however.

Any questions on the Saints book, ask me on the Saints Thread.  Right now I'm knocking off 20-30 pages a day, more on weekends.

50 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

Were there any new varieties or other unknown information discovered during this time?

JB, the book has several PAGES for each year on that year's Mintmark and Die varieties, errors, alignments, strikes, cracks/breaks, etc. all outlined.  Some years have more than others.

As for unknown information....some of it is 100% brand-new, but the best thing about the book is the VOLUME of information in one book.  Roger uses quotes from Bowers and Akers books when appropriate, and this is good (why reinvent the wheel ?).

Each coin review (by year and/or mintmark) is 5-8 pages long at LEAST.  The section on the 1907 High Relief is 20 pages !  I'd say he has 4-6x what Akers has on each year/mintage, considering this book has more pages per year AND is a bigger book size-wise (and page-wise).

The sections that don't deal with specific coin mintages -- like The Gold Standard or the sections he has at the end of the book (not there yet) -- are really great.

5 hours ago, RWB said:

A notable factor in this approach is that most of the book's content is entirely new and never before published - anywhere.

You don't have to tell me -- it's already The Bible on Saints as far as I am concerned.

I just have to figure how to get the key pages on my smartphone so I can reference them when I'm looking at Saints.  

Zebo, did you get the GIRL SILVER DOLLAR book ?  What about the Saints book (I'm just at page 500 now) ?

Thanks Roger...hey, I loved the chapter so freakin' much that I didn't notice:  the 1927-D section did NOT have a price guide.  Was this deliberate or an oversight ? 

I'm guessing deliberate because you went into the coin-by-coin analysis which mentioned price.  But I cheated and fast-forwarded to the end of the book and saw that the 1927-D is the only coin (besides the 1933) that doesn't have that nifty price grid.  

No big thing, just thought I'd mention it.

23 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

The issue of print runs and leftover inventory is precisely why I went with Amazon's Print on Demand for my book.

Name of the book, PF ?

Roger, how long did you work on this book ?  6 months ?  1 year ?  Or did you work fewer hours a week over a longer period of time ?

On a somewhat related note...found this on David Akers book on gold coins:

"This is just a rehash of Akers' original withOUT all the personal wisdom and insight that Akers shared with the reader, which is what made his books the best coin guides around. There's very little in this book that isn't readily available on the internet. Look for the original...it's just a better book."

If you have the 1988 version (NOT the 2008 edition) of his book, let me know if this is true.... hard to believe that the 1st Edition of a book has useful commentary that was left out of a 2nd Edition.  I have the 2nd.

On 10/11/2017 at 12:26 PM, Conder101 said:

Not strange, they just didn't agree that it warranted the grade.  It doesn't matter what PCGS thought of it back then or what CAC thought of it more recently.  They didn't think it deserved it and they didn't cross it.  PCGS rendered an opinion, CAC rendered an opinion, and NGC rendered an opinion.  Opinions vary. 

Strange that NGC was saying that they couldn't guarantee it would at least match the old PCGS grade, no ?

12 minutes ago, Zebo said:

I imagine some new content and the price/population/price updates. 3rd edition 2016 4th - today - or at least that's when I was notified.

Wow, that's a pretty quick update.  I have the Morgan SD (2012) and Double Eagle (2004) Red Books; they didn't get updates that quickly.

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

Roger - I just saw the releas of the fourth edition redbook on Peace dollars. I am very behind in my reading and haven't cracked the third edition. What is the main differences between the third and fourth editions?

thanks

What years were both books released ?  One thing I would hope to see if I was buying is the newer edition having better/updated pricing estimates for the coins.  I know it's not an exact thing, but if the price has changed alot, if the trend is noticeable in the years since the 3rd Edition, you would hope that the folks who put out the book can give a good price quote.  Should be the publisher's job, not necessarily the editor's/Roger's.

RWB's Saint book has a great price grid going back decades.  Might not be 100% accurate but better than anything I've ever seen.  Useful to see the long-term trend, if not the price for a particular year.

54 minutes ago, RWB said:

Well....don't make those other books jealous !

LOl.......actually, I skimmed the Akers and Bower's books for coins I was looking at at various times when I was buying and also looked at other interesting years (i.e., 1907 HR, 1927-D, 1933, etc.).  But haven't read them cover-to-cover or the main sections dealing with Saints, in their entirety.

In fact, I am finding lots of my old bookmarks in the coinbooks from when I started reading them years ago.  Seems I stopped in Bower's DE book on the Type III Double Eagles in the late-1800's.  I never even made it to the Saints section !!   

So at least checking them out lately while I read your book, I found all the bookmarks.  I was wondering where they all went....had like 8-10 of them, and lately couldn't find one at all for your book or my currency books !!  

41 minutes ago, RWB said:

Personally, I much prefer the AU coin with its trace of legitimate abrasion on the highest points.

Yup, 100% agree...unless I hit MegaMillions, when I buy a 1907 High Relief I'm probably gonna look at AU58's rather than low-60's MS.

I appreciate the literary works of both of you guys.  I do myself find it tougher to find the time to read books today compared to 20-25 years ago -- even for topics I love -- but trust me, quality coin books will always be bought (if not read).

Speaking of which, you wouldn't believe how many books I have purchased in the last 10 years that haven't been read and are just accumulating dust on my bookshelf.  Reading Roger's Saints book from Day 1 was a complete change for me; even my other coin books didn't get hit until weeks or months after I bought them.