GoldFinger1969

Would they impact pricing ? Are they mint quality or circulated ?

As a reminder...remember how these rankings changed over the decades: Rarity Rankings, 1940's/1950's: ULTRA-RARE….1924-S, 1926-D, 1926-S SUPER-RARE….1921, 1927-S, 1931-D RARE……………1925-D, 1927-D, 1930-S SEMI-RARE……1922-S, 1929, 1931, 1932, 1920-S, 1908-S, 1924-D Rarity Rankings, 2000’s: ULTRA-RARE……1927-D, 1930-S, 1921 SUPER-RARE…….1920-S, 1931, 1932 RARE………………1931-D, 1927-S, 1926-D SEMI-RARE………1929, 1908-S, 1925-S, 1925-D, 1909-D, 1926-S, 1924S Rarity Rankings, 2020’s: ULTRA-RARE……1927-D, 1930-S, 1932 SUPER-RARE….....1931, 1931-D, 1921 RARE………………1920-S, 1927-S, 1929 SEMI-RARE………1926-D, 1925-D, 1926S, 1924-S, 1909-D, 1924-D, 1908-S

Depends. If it is already a common or mostly bullion piece (i.e., 1908 No Mottos and the Wells Fargo Hoard) then the price decline might be miniscule. OTOH...if the 1933's at Fort Knox ever get released, the value of the sole 1933 crashes. Price declines and non-sales of coins in the 1950's from what I have read were CLEARLY IMPACTED by the small numbers of rare coins coming back from Europe via Paul Wittlin and others like him.

It's an 8% premium to the price of gold, 11-12% if you account for the sub-1 ounce of gold in a Saint. You have the highest AU grade (58)...AND the CAC sticker. Probably an easy coin to sell if you have to. Personally, if I wasn't going to buy an MS-66 or higher for a 1908 NM, I'd go down to the AU-58 level rather than low-to-mid 60's. But that's just me.

That's not surprising. Anybody with certified coins probably has made separate arrangements that their heirs/estate should contact a specific person to sell them or that they should go to a dealer to sell them and not sell them at an estate or garage sale.

I don't doubt that between the U.S. and Europe, most ancient/foreign coins are probably raw. We probably have only scratched the surface there. OTOH....considering that the major coin dealers and big-time collectors had representatives (like Paul Wittlin) stationed in Europe scouring banks for U.S. gold coins, the low-hanging fruit has probably been picked. Post-1950, you had to have feet on the ground to find out. Today, with technology, probably not as critical. However, I wonder about stray hoards in Central and South America. Mexico and Canada, too.

Here's a nice AU-58 CAC 1908 NM that ends within the hour and including the bp. is under $2,100: https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1117392/1908-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-No-Motto-PCGS-AU-58-CAC

I'm not surprised you saw this. Alot of people who are "Gold Bugs" and PM collectors are quirky and a bit eccentric -- not to mention cheap. I'm happy my LCS and others make a few $$$ buying and selling from me. It's the cost of LIQUIDITY which means that when I have to sell something they are there to buy from me even if I only get 97% of spot bullion. I'm happy to pay it. One thing I noted is the LCS's in my area have NO INTEREST whatsoever in buying Silver Certificates specifically and most paper money generally. I think one guy said he'd give me like $10.50 or something like that for 10 SCs.

At FUN 2020 -- which opened on a Thursday -- I would say there were no noticeable abandonded booths until Saturday, Day 3 of the event. Thursday and Friday very busy and full with tables staffed. Some departures Friday afternoon.

Photography isn't my expertise, but I will say that an LED light bulb with the coin angled at 30 degrees and me facing it at that angle reduces glare and gives a real-life shot of the coin with a basic smartphone on default settings.

If any of you are interested in Indian Head Coins, there's a Jim O'Neal Catalog of $10 Saint-Gaudens for sale on Ebay that looks pretty good.

And I have learned that the Big Action takes place among the dealers themselves BEFORE the shows start, or very early on Day 1 when they open. I never knew that. I've heard that 80% of all the activity/dealer activity could be done pre-show.

To an extent, I get where you are coming from, JB. But if those coins didn't come out during the big rise in silver/gold in 1979-80 or later booms....plus being handed down to family, friends, estate sales, or others once the original buyers/inheritors passed on in recent decades.....I don't know when they come out. With internet access, everybody can find out what a coin is worth or how they can go about getting it evaluated (graded). It appears from my readings that the number of mini-hoards has DECLINED in recent years/decades from when we were kids or young adults. I hope I am wrong, as I would love for a few more dozen of our favorite tough-to-get coins show up in the population census. But I'm not holding my breath.

That's interesting because the one thing we've heard the last 2 years is that dealers have no inventory and are able to sell what they get online and enjoy higher margins.

How would you have graded some of those coins, Chris ?

Fascinating stuff. That's why it's so important these guys tell their stories in writing or orally or better yet on tape before they pass on. The information they have (assuming it's verifiable or flows from common sense) is invaluable.

That's interesting and I do recall the name Charles Williams and Cincinnati in my readings. But can't recall a direct link to Menjou -- thanks, Dave !!

What's he gonna do with his inventory ? Older guy or just wants to retire ?

On Stack's own website or the article I cut-and-pasted, Stack's claims the foreign bank contacted them and the volume of coins was so big that they reached out to MTB and brought them in: "...Stack's was contacted by a foreign bank to see if we would be interested in acquiring a large holding of United States gold coins, primarily Saint-Gaudens double eagles. We learned that this was among the major banks that received U.S. gold coins as part of government payments. The size of the inventory (the exact number still remains a secret) was so great that we decided that for such a large hoard we would partner with one of our New York colleagues, Manfra, Tordella and Brooks (MTB) to finance and sell this great find nationwide."

Understood.....but I think a day at a coin show is more FUN than scouring Mint documents through the Newman Portal.

Oh there probably are....and there are also mini-hoards (not sure about Big Hoards). But you've had an explosion in gold and silver prices since the TPGs first came around and anybody COGNIZANT of what they have probably realizes condition rarity and year of mintage determine riches. So many/most have probably been found. Hey, I hope I'm wrong. Still hoping we find more of the rare coins even if it would wreak havoc on the pricing structure.

Gold coins ? Probably generic commons like the coins you are considering. If they know it is going to be sold as a bullion subsitute, they probably realize that most buyers don't care that it's not graded/slabbed.

BTW, Roger, I know you tried to get the details on the 1983 El Salvador Hoard from MTB but the records were destroyed. I presume you know that they partnered with Stack's on those coins, and they might have some information that was also only privvy to MTB. I didn't know Stack's was MTB's partner until I found a dated NY Times or other article mentioning it a few weeks ago.

What kind of "research coins" are you talking about ? Outside of an auctioner like Heritage, I don't think the 600 dealers at FUN or smaller number at other shows are going to have unique, historical coins outside of what it says on the label. I presume you've been to big coin shows where they have viewing lots and you can talk to experts who might have insight....other than that, not sure how you can do research at a coin show. I mean, I know if MTB was at a show to promote bullion sales you could always ask them about the 1983 El Salvador Gold/Saint Hoard (before the key people passed away), but that's a unique incident. Ditto Stack's.

Just picked up a 2005 Philip H. Morse Catalog focused on Saints. Probably duplicative with other HA stuff but for $20 not a bad purchase.