DWLange

I was one of a panel of variety experts who confirmed that the 1943-S DDO cent long known as FS-101 is actually a 1943/1942-S overdate cent! Yes, it has been hiding in plain sight for a long time. Here's the text of a press release written by Tom DeLorey and based upon our research, followed by NGC's photo of this amazing variety. About 45 years ago, collector Del Romines came into my office at Coin World’s Collectors Clearinghouse with two well-worn 1943-P nickels that he thought were 1943/2-P overdates. I thought that he might be right, so I took pictures of his coins, published them in Coin World, and asked if anybody had a higher grade specimen that could verify the overdate. One week later a member of my local coin club, Bern Nagengast, cherrypicked a sharp BU specimen at a coin show, and the 1943/42-P Jefferson nickel was confirmed. At the time people were amazed that it had taken almost 35 years for the overdate to be noticed. About a month ago longtime collector James Elliott contacted me via the Internet and said that another collector in the die variety collecting field, Pete Apple, had recommended that he contact me about a 1943-S cent that he had with a known Doubled Die Obverse that he thought was also a 1943/2-S overdate. As with Del Romines and his 1943/42-P nickels, I think he is right, and my fellow die variety specialists Bill Fivaz, John Wexler and James Wiles agree with me, as does noted Lincoln cent specialist and author David Lange. In our unanimous opinion, the 1943/1942-S cent is a true overdate! Though it is a known die variety, and has been for many years, it has only ever been recognized for its die doubling. It is currently listed as such in the “Cherrypickers’ Guide” by Bill Fivaz and the late J.T. Stanton as variety FS-101 (019.5) among the 1943-S cents. [The (019.5) number is an obsolete reference number from the earlier editions of the CPG, which is noted because it might be found on older TPG slabs.] The misalignment of the designs between the 1942-dated hub and the 1943-dated hub pivots around a spot on the left obverse rim. Because of this swing the coin shows only trivial doubling on the word LIBERTY close to the pivot point, but some fairly strong doubling almost due North and South at the base of the 1. There is similar doubling under the top curve of the 9 and along the right side the leg of the 9. There is extra metal below the sharp left angle of the 4 that corresponds in scale to the doubling on the 1 and the 9. Fairly rare early die state coins will also show similar doubling on the base of the 4, but this feature apparently was either worn off or polished off of the die early in its die life. Elliott gets the credit for first suggesting that the doubled die was actually an overdated die, ever since he asked the question back in July of 2020 in a private online forum, “Lincoln Cent Errors and Varieties Only,” on Facebook. As he pointed out, “the extra metal to the upper right side of the 3 matches a 2.” He provided an overlay to show how an underlying 2 could account for that extra metal. As my colleagues and I have confirmed, this extra metal does not line up with any part of the 3 if the entire 1943 date is doubled in a North-South direction, the same way that the 1 and the 9 and the 4 are doubled. As seen in the attached overlay of a 1943 date and a 1942 date created by die variety specialist Dr. James Wiles, owner of the Variety Vista website, the high arched curve of the upper right part of a 2 falls into the field to the right of the top of the 3. Study the pictures of the overdate, and see that the blob of raised metal to the right of the top of the 3 cannot align with any part of a 3 that is doubled only North and South. There is extra metal inside the top of the 3 that corresponds with the upper left curve of the 2, though its similarity to the upper left curve of the 3 must be acknowledged. However, it does seem to match the angle of the upper left curve of the 2 more than that of the 3. There is extra metal below the center “tine” of the 3 that corresponds with the lower left curve of the 2, above the base of the 2 (which is not present). If you are wondering why there is nothing else inside the bottom of the 3, look at the images of normal 1942 and 1943 dates and see that the 2 is rather short, the same height as the 4, while the 3 is much taller, the same height as the 9. Only a 3 could be down there if the 3 were doubled, and there is nothing. Why is the base of the 2 missing and the upper right curve of the 2 weak? This is a function of the hubbing process. Back then blank dies were polished down to a very shallow cone on the end to help the positive steel hub transform the negative steel die more effectively. As the hub came into contact with the die blank the center of the design would form first, and then spread outwards as the hub sank deeper and deeper into the die. Eventually the die became work hardened from all this pressure, and so the hub stopped entering the conical die blank before the design impression had reached out all the way to the rim of the die. The die now needed to be annealed, or heated in an oven to a certain temperature and allowed to cool slowly overnight. This softened the die steel. On the next working day it was put back under a design hub for another impression. Sometimes this process had to be repeated more than once, depending upon the diameter and relief of the design, the skill of the annealer, the skill of the hubber, etc., etc. If the second (or third) hub impression happened to be from a different hub with a different date, the result should be an overdate “IF” the earlier date was sufficiently formed during the previous impression(s). Dual date hubbing could have happened near the end of any calendar year when the Engraving Department was still producing dies for current usage from the current year’s hub while simultaneously producing dies from the next year’s hub in order to have some ready to be used on January 2nd. The same thing happened with the 1909/8 gold double eagle, the 1918/7-D nickel, the 1918/7-S quarter, the 1942/41-P&D dimes, and the 1943/42-P nickel. It has been speculated that it is no coincidence that six of the seven modern hubbed overdates occurred during wartime, when the Mint would be less inclined to scrap out a blundered but perfectly usable die. It is also possible that one or more of the skilled hubbers was off serving his country in the military. On this particular die the outer parts of the design, such as IN GOD WE TRUST, were not formed by the first impression, and so they could not be doubled by the second impression of the hub. Over in the word LIBERTY, the BERTY shows some very trivial die doubling (being close to the pivot point), while the LI show no doubling at all because they did not exist before the second hubbing. The upper right curve of the 2 was incompletely formed by the first hubbing, while the flat base of the 2 was not formed because it lies closer to the rim. Something similar can be seen on the 1943/42-P nickel, on which the top of the date is closest to the rim. It shows a strong base of the 2 from the original hubbing, but not the center or top of the 2. The result was a 3 over a partial 2. By contrast, if only the bases of LIBERTY and IN GOD WE TRUST were formed by the 1942 hub impression, the letters were simply finished normally by the subsequent 1943 impression. Several specimens of the 1943/1942-S cent have been examined. Only the earliest die states show doubling at the bottom of the upright of the 4. Middle to later die states show some strong vertical die polish lines, as might have been caused by the use of an emery stick to clean the die, in the field above the date. The die variety will continue to be listed in the “Cherrypickers Guide” as FS-101, though a new description of it will be forthcoming. The description in the Numismatic Guaranty Company’s Variety Plus website will also be amended. I would like to thank James Elliott for having the wisdom to look at “what everybody knows is so” and asking questions. I would also like to thank Bill Fivaz, David W. Lange, John Wexler and Dr. James Wiles for their invaluable contributions in adding yet another overdate to the canon of American die varieties. To those of you who were amazed when I published the 1943/42-P nickel some 35 years after it was first struck, all I can say 79 years after the 1943/1942-S was first struck is: “KEEP LOOKING!!!”

I seem to recall the W and T labels lasting longer than four weeks, though I don't remember whether it spanned more than one holder type.

QA was suspended or banned from these boards. I don't which it was nor the reason.

NGC used T for Toned and W for White around 2000-01. The marketplace seemed to be asking for such a thing at the time, yet it never really took hold and was discontinued after a few months. This is the book in question. The copy in my library is the Second Edition from 2003. I haven't seen it for sale in at least 15 years, though I suppose it may turn up online from time to time.

Here is where you can learn how the real coins look in high resolution photos: https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/united-states/

When the tailfeathers became too weak from repolishing of the proof dies the Mint would reinforce them by hand with gravers. NGC recognizes several such varieties, which are becoming more popular as collectors learn of them: https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/quarters/washington-quarters-1932-1998/?page=1 Once at this site, click the PF tab at upper right to see the proof listings.

I have not heard of any 1965-dated quarters with the Type A reverse typically used for the silver issues. As you noted, however, both 1964-dated and 1965-dated quarters were being struck simultaneously from the the fall of 1965 through July of 1966, so such an error is possible.

The tail feathers were weak in Flanagan's original model, as was the motto IN GOD WE TRUST. The latter feature was fixed in 1934, but the tail feathers weren't sharpened until 1965, when a new reverse hub was created for the clad coins. One of my favorite varieties is the 1964-D silver quarter struck from a reverse die intended for the clad issues. It has the sharpened reverse and looks very different from normal 1964-D quarters: https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/quarters/washington-quarters-1932-1998/817165/

Repeating the above, no they don't. Wearing gloves just increases the likelihood of dropping a coin. Graders do keep their hands clean to protect the coins (no eating lunch at their desks). As for masks, these were worn during the pandemic, but only a few continue to do so since then.

I see coins like that one several times weekly. They've been submitted to NGC as either a variety or a mint error, sometimes both. Of course, it's common enough on Zincolns that we don't mention anything in the label beyond the grade. It's a sad waste of our time and the submitter's money, but those sort of submissions are just growing in number.

The eBay sellers of those awful souvenir vinyl wallets for holding elongated cents always refer to these coins as "pressed pennies." 😮

When you die you bleed?

I believe there are only the five that NGC certified in the early 1990s. All or some may have crossed, but unless the old tags are returned to NGC they will continue to appear in the Census. However one wants to describe them, they are indeed something quite different from ordinary circulation strikes. I've never seen any other 1927 nickels with such definition in the Indian's braid and the hair above it.

The first coin is a "process job." In other words its original zinc plating was stripped and a new plating applied. This was a cottage industry in the 1950s and '60s, and such coins will not receive numeric grades. The third coin is an example of why so many steelies were processed, as this is how nearly all the circulated pieces looked when found in change. The 1943-D has been cleaned, but it does appear to have its original zinc.

NGC certified several of the 1927 nickels from chromium-plated dies, but that was shortly before my arrival. In other words, it was in the Paleolithic Period. https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/united-states/nickels/buffalo-five-cents-1913-1938/13998/1927-5c-sp/

Aside from the fact that no one reading that ad is going to have such rare and/or high grade coins, what's misleading about it?

It's a bit hard to see in that photo, but the overly precise edge lettering reveals that it is a modern counterfeit.

As RWB can confirm the U. S. Mint did keep very detailed die record books that included the reason for each die's retirement. Dies were shipped from the Philadelphia Mint's engraving/die sinking department when requested by the other mints' superintendents, and unless there was a design change (such as addition of the motto IN GOD WE TRUST in 1866 and 1908) undated reverse dies were used until no longer suitable by reason of extreme wear or damage. In the 1920s, however, extreme die wear was somewhat overlooked as a cause for retirement, since budgets had been slashed after the end of World War I. The result was many coins revealing poor definition on one or both sides. Being undated, reverse dies were retained after the end of each calendar year and are thus more likely to be found quite worn.

The nickel doesn't appear to be worn at all. It is quite poorly struck from moderately worn dies.

It is still in committee...

Yes, I meant Republic and not Central America. During the mass conservation and grading of those coins NGC did label many by the period of their coining. This was a one-time service to the submitter and is not offered now.

My example of the 1861-O half dollar is one that Bill Bugert's book identifies as a Louisiana-struck piece, though it's not so noted on the holder. It seems that any example of this issue is a coin with an interesting back story, and that's why I wanted a nice, original one. In addition to having been coined under three flags at different times, the 1861-O half was also widely represented among the thousands of coins recovered from the wreck of Central America some years ago.

Rev Being undated, reverse dies were used as long as they were suitable, so 1926-S dimes may have been struck using reverse dies shipped that year or a year or two earlier. A good example is found with the 1917-S dimes, some of which used the tiny mintmark typical of 1916-S Mercury Dimes, while others used the slightly larger mintmark newly created for 1917. On coins that have obverse mintmarks, such as Lincoln Cents and Standing Liberty Quarters, this was not possible. That's why both Type 1 and Type 2 1917-S quarter all have the new style mintmark that remained in use as late as 1941 for cents through quarters and 1942 for halves. In fact, the 1942-S halves displaying the 1917-42 mintmark were almost certainly struck with reverse dies shipped for 1941's production or even earlier.

DDO-007 is a variety NGC will likely add, if and when someone submits an example. We don't like to add new varieties until we're able to provide photos. Customers may, and often do, ask about adding a variety before submitting it.

This is the standard guide to Braided Hair Cent varieties: https://www.coinbooks.org/v24/esylum_v24n22a02.html It's challenging to use, not because the book isn't well written and illustrated, but rather because the differences between most dies are fairly minor. Most varieties are also illustrated by NGC, though the photos may not always reveal the subtle differences: https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/cents/braided-hair-cents-1839-1857/?page=1