Mohawk

5 hours ago, Mokiechan said:

Far less dangerous than the Smithsonian issues that NGC is slabbing.  Those are advertised in nationally distributed magazines, etc.   But I know, dangerous is dangerous even if to a lesser level.  But danger surrounds us, I guess we have to leave this debate behind and concede our respective positions will not change.

I don't know about that statement....remember that Mr. Carr did make a 1964-D Peace Dollar.  I've actually seen one of them in person and those are very dangerous counterfeits.  They absolutely look like what a real 1964-D dollar may have looked like and they could easily fool people.  I'd say that Carr's 1964-D Peace Dollar is far more dangerous than the Smithsonian issues that you mention.

To everyone......I hope I don't jinx us here, but I think that this may be the single most positive, respectful thread on Daniel Carr that has ever happened here!  Kudos to all involved!

3 hours ago, Mokiechan said:

Mohawk, Nothing wrong with heated responses and  polar opposite opinions.  I asked so I deserve whatever comes my way.   Oh, and I did not mention his 1964-D because I was unaware he had been that ballsy, I would NOT have supported that at all.  I know he did that 1964 Morgan so it must have been after the Government, or someone, warned him away from great legal trouble.

Mokiechan......I have to say that I am glad that you see how the 1964-D dollar of Carr's IS a problem.  That coin without a copy stamp is dangerous and is certainly a counterfeit.....that is the one issue which causes me the most concern regarding Mr. Carr.  I think Mr. Carr was inspired to do the 1964 Morgan when models or actual dies for a 1964 dated Morgan were found somewhere........that one dances right on the line for me.....as far as we know, no 1964 Morgans were ever struck, but striking such coins was considered by the US Mint to the point where some preliminary preparations were made to undertake such  coinage.

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I must admit that I thought the coins should have COPY stamped on them until I read applicable US Code.   Maybe the Code should have been written more broadly, no one anticipated Mr. Carr finding himself in perfect loophole land. 

I understand your outrage,  I just don't share it. 

And I respect your opinion on the issue as well, but I do think Mr. Carr has drawn attention to a place in applicable US law which needs revision.

15 minutes ago, Six Mile Rick said:

It's kinda like buying a knock-off.     I'll take the heat for that message!!

I think I'm going to be taking some heat for my first reply here as well, my friend.

8 minutes ago, Six Mile Rick said:

Mr. Carr dose some beautiful re-production pieces. As you call it -- "Fantasy Pieces"  I have never owned any of his work nor would II ever invest in a copy of something that is impossible to acquire. I do collect rare --- perfect --- coins but they are U.S. mint originals. . 

Originals are the way to go, Rick, for sure.  I like mine, too, but in my case they are RCM, Ottoman Mint, Berlin Mint and Muldenhutten Mint originals.....with many other mints in my Custom Sets....even some US Mint originals!

Well.......you fail to mention that Mr. Carr did create a 1964-D Peace Dollar, which in my opinion is a counterfeit as it is a copy of a coin which actually existed and that was minted by a sovereign government, though examples of that coin were never actually issued for circulation.  That, in my mind, makes him a counterfeiter in at least that one instance, though I am personally strongly against all of what Mr. Carr terms his "fantasy overstrikes".  In this hobby, there are enough fakes around without someone like Mr. Carr appearing on the scene and creating more fakes, which are some of the best and most deceptive fakes I've ever seen, that he is selling as legitimate pieces of exonumia.  He's making the fight against misinformation and counterfeiting that much harder and, by doing so, he is hurting the hobby.  And, should he really be praised for skirting a law which was put in place to protect numismatists in making his fakes?  In my opinion, no, he shouldn't.  In my opinion, Carr's "fantasy overstrikes" should either carry the word Copy in compliance with the Hobby Protection Act or they should be deemed illegal to make.

However, Mr. Carr does have other works which are his original designs.  These are indeed beautiful and they are indeed legitimate, collectible pieces of exonumia.  I do like his original works and I have no issues with them whatsoever as works of art.  However, I will not ever purchase anything from Mr. Carr or made by Mr. Carr until either he stops making his "fantasy overstrikes" or they come into compliance with the Hobby Protection Act by carrying the word copy on them.  I just don't feel right even supporting the original works of someone who I view as a counterfeiter.

I feel I should close by warning that Mr. Carr and his "fantasy overstrikes" are a touchy subject around here.  Be ready for some heated responses.

Yeah.....I see what you mean....the Yale looks like it's suffering from some kind of illness...maybe smallpox?  Something like that?  At any rate, it looks strange and rather sickly....not something you'd expect in heraldry to convey strength or heritage or anything else that heraldry is meant to convey.  As for myself, I think there's nothing wrong with focusing on your Zimbabwe notes and there's nothing wrong with only collecting the Queen's Beasts coins that you actually enjoy.  That's the trap that traditional series collecting can spring on us......the need to collect everything, even if we don't like everything in a series or set.  An example of this for me is last year's US Mint Reverse Proof Set.  As you already know, I'm not a US coin guy but this set had three of the ATB quarters with birds featured on them and I am a bird coin guy.  So, I bought the set, took the three quarters and sold the rest.  I paid for the set that way and I got the coins from it I wanted without being stuck with coins I dislike.  And I feel good about it!  I did it my way, and my award winning Custom Set benefited.  I pursue my Canadian PL coins in a similar way.  While I plug them into year sets, I'm mostly hunting Cameo pieces, so I'll buy duplicates and not worry about it.  If I can't find one of the coins in a condition I like (mostly meaning cameo, but toned also works here), I don't worry about it too much.  I sort of view my collection as one big thing made up of different little parts, built to my own design and what I like to do.  If they form sets, then they do, but I don't let the idea of sets or series hold me hostage.  I just do what I do.  Giving up on the idea of traditional sets and series has been rather liberating for me and I feel that it has made me a better and happier collector.  The best thing I think is to ask yourself if you genuinely like something.  If you do, then chase it but if you don't, don't spend you money on something just to complete someone else's idea of what a set or series is.  Buy what you like, form a collection of what you like, and you can't go wrong!  However, if there is a series or set where you like everything in it (like your Zimbabwe notes), then forming a series set is a good thing!  There is no one absolute answer on how to pursue this great hobby.....and, just my humble opinion, your Zimbabwe notes are far more fascinating than the Queen's Beasts coins will ever be!

Cheers!

~Tom

Congratulations! That is wonderful news, and I too can see the pride and love on your face as you hold Sam.  It's absolutely amazing to see that and to know that Sam is progressing so well!  Once again, congrats my friend!

Yeah, Great Collections is great.  I just consigned some coins with them myself that I would make more money on on selling through them than I would selling them on eBay.  Ian's a great guy and he works really hard for you to both promote your coins and get them sold.  I'd recommend them as well.

1 hour ago, Just Bob said:

It looks like van den Wall Bake made some slight changes in the lettering placement, size, etc. I wonder if this was for aesthetic reasons, or if it was to further differentiate his coins from Taddel's.

I noticed that, too.  It'd be very interesting to know why these changes occurred, but we likely never will.....coins often keep their secrets well, especially coins this old and back.  If you want to see some craziness with a coin from the 19th century, check out 1859 Canadian Large Cents.  I'm not certain of how many varieties of this coin exist, but I've heard estimates of up to 400!  I know of some collectors who just collect the different varieties of 1859 Large Cents.  That doesn't sound like much fun to me but, hey, we all have our things and that's what makes this hobby great!

It's also great to see you posting about coins again, my friend.  The worry and stress levels must be lower......I'm glad to see it.

Cheers!

~Tom

Revenant,

I'm so glad to hear that Sam is improving and is out of the most immediate danger......that's a great relief!  He sounds like he's a fighter, so he's going to get through the rest of it, too.  Thanks for letting us know!

Thanks for the update Revenant.  I don't know what to say.....I cannot imagine how hard this is.  It has to be absolutely terrible.  As you know, I'm not religious and I don't pray, but my thoughts and best wishes are still with you and yours all through this, my friend.  If I were in your area of Texas and not just some guy sitting in New York State thousands of miles away, I'd do anything I could to help you and yours through this.  As it stands, all I can do is offer you my best wishes, which I do again, wholeheartedly.

3 hours ago, Revenant said:

She's doing fine. Minor concerns make it sound like she won't be released until Saturday or Sunday instead of today which she's thrilled about. Even if she's released she wants to nap on the couch in the baby's room rather than coming home because she knows she can't travel back and forth much.

I'm glad to hear that she's doing fine.  And I don't blame her one bit for wanting to stay with Samuel.  I know I would too.  Thanks for the update Revenant.

Thanks for the update Revenant.  Sorry to hear that Samuel had to be intubated.......you're right, that sucks.  But it'll help him heal....he won't have to work so hard to breathe now, so his body will have its energy for other things.  How's Shandy doing?

Congrats on the birth of Samuel!  The doctors and other medical professionals will take good care of Samuel and Shandy.  With the expertise of their medical teams and the love and support of you and the rest of your family, they will get through it.  The waiting is over and now the recovery process can begin for your wife and son.  Once again, my thoughts and well wishes are with you and your whole family!

Everything is going to be fine.  Sending my best wishes and good vibes to you guys!

23 hours ago, Revenant said:

Personally, I think the bigger threat to our hobby / community is the decline of cash, the rise of digital transactions and the specter of a cashless society in the future. People (and kids) these days are increasingly not using cash on a daily basis - I usually go weeks without using cash, months without using coins. I think if we have a generation that doesn't have that visceral connection to coinage you might see the hobby take a huge hit at that point. The other part of this is that most people just don't understand silver and gold as a valuable thing anymore. There are videos on YouTube of a guy offering people a 100 oz silver bar (when silver was at $16/oz), for $100 and he was in front of a coin shop, offering to let them test it to verify that it was real, and no one was willing to buy it from him for 7-8 cents on the dollar because they just didn't know.

That's so true Revenant.  The decline of cash is a definite danger to collecting.  I myself still use mostly cash, but I realize how rare that truly is and I wonder if it would be the case if I didn't collect coins and currency.  But introducing kids to it, like you and deposito have, can work wonders.  And, to deposito, I'm 38 and I collect.  My fiancee is also a collector and she's 30.  I started collecting coins with my dad when I was 8.  I found a 1947 Maple Leaf Canadian Small Cent and I loved the thing.  It seemed like something so old to an 8 year old....after all, it was 2 years older than my dad.  To a little kid, that's crazy!  I remember him taking me down to a stationary store, when they still had those things, and getting me blue Whitman folders for Canadian Small Cents, 5 Cents, 10 Cents and 25 Cents.  From there, I was always bugging everyone I knew to look through their change for Canadian coins for my collection.  My mom was so patient with me.  She'd always let me look through her change every single day and she got her friends to let me dig through their change jars and the like for Canadian treasures.  My big goals were the 5, 10 and 25 cents from 1970.....they're pretty low mintage for modern coins.  I never found them though.....though I'm pursuing them in Cameo Proof Like form now as an adult.  Though I fell away from coins in high school because I got into video games and the usual teenage dumbassery, I got back into coins at 19 and I've not stopped since then.  Things we do with our parents as kids to stick with us, and I'd say that hold true for collecting coins

Hey Revenant,

It looks like you may have a future collector on your hands!!! It's great that you're introducing Ben to aspects of the hobby so young, and those buffalo rounds were a good sacrifice toward a great cause!  As someone who is in the field of education (though I teach adults and not children), I also love seeing parents who are willing to give their children a solid, hands on learning experience.  It's always better when someone can actually touch something and experience it that way when you're exposing them to something like coins.  I also love seeing the future of our great hobby, and you gave us all a great glimpse of that as did you deposito.  When people talk about the hobby being in decline, being an older person's game or something like that, I'd love to show them posts like these.  Our hobby definitely has a future. 

Another great post!

Cheers!

~Tom

10 hours ago, ColonialCoinsUK said:

Given the very low populations of some issues I find the same applies to many world coins, particularly minors, and not just for high grade examples - although no where near to the extent it does with ancients! This is an area I have always read lots about but find the complexity and diversity a bit overwhelming so never actually started anything serious - and some of the prices for top examples scare me

I did pick up another couple of coins for empty slots at the Goldberg sale last night - both the first graded examples for raw sets which I was trying not to do, one was the only known MS example of that particular issue which is my excuse. As usual I was outbid on a couple of others and it wouldn't surprise me if they now appear in a Registry Set at some point. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Glenn Onishi at Goldberg for fantastic customer service when the PC gremlins appeared during the on-line live bidding.

Yes, the surviving populations of many classic world coins are very small.  And I understand that world coins can be intimidating, but they are worth trying on if you ever feel the desire to.  Though collecting Ottoman is very challenging as Ottoman coins have one of the smallest pools of surviving coins of any area of world numismatics, it's also a lot of fun because of the challenge, which is completely different than US coins (I'm from the US).  With US coins, I've found that aside from extreme rarities, it's more a matter of getting the money to buy the coin together than actually finding the coin.  If I had the money, I could likely buy many 1916 Standing Liberty Quarters, 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cents and 1889-CC Morgan Dollars within a couple of weeks, if that.  However, with Ottoman, the challenge is actually locating an example of the coin.  A great example is my 1327/9 5 Kurush, which is a fairly major late Ottoman rarity.  I had been looking for an example of this coin for about four years when I found one in 2014.  It;s an ex-jewelry piece, but I didn't even blink.  I had the funds, so I went for it.  I'm glad I did.  I haven't seen any other examples come up for sale since then.  That's the kind of challenge I enjoy.

Well......I'm glad that with my main classic coin pursuit, late Ottoman, this isn't a question you have to ask.  With a few exceptions, once you find a nice, high grade example, especially in AU or MS, it's likely the nicest example you'll find for years, if not the nicest example you'll ever find.  And for key dates, once you find an example, not even a high grade example, just an EXAMPLE, you likely have the example that will be in your collection for as long as you have it.  I have to say that I like that aspect of Ottoman collecting as it keeps things simple.....no questions about upgrades or anything.  Just be glad to have the coin.

I'm not sure what you collect specifically, but I think you have to do what feels right to you.  But I think I'd worry about completing the collection before upgrading. 

Hey Revenant,

What a great post!  I'm a big animal person, and it's awesome that you are exposing Ben to animals at the zoo and instilling that love in him.  Those are some great photos you shared, and Ben looks like he's having a blast!  And, as I am a big reptile and fish person, kudos are in order for starting his elongated penny collection with the reptile house design!  Though I love almost all animals (I really only dislike rodents,dogs and opossums.  I love almost anything else, though), sometimes it seems like mammals get a disproportionate amount of admiration from humans.  Maybe it's because we're mammals......who knows?  But I'm more excited about a komodo dragon, american alligator, snapping turtle or golden eagle over a lion or wolf anyday!!  I also think your wife has a great plan with getting Ben a new design each time you guys go to the zoo......it's a great way to make an already fun time even better!  Icing on the cake, so to speak, pun definitely intended

I'm glad to hear that things are going well with the pregnancy as well and I must commend you on your photographic abilities.  You definitely have talent, my friend!  I can photograph coins, but I pretty much suck at anything else.

Cheers!

~Tom

27 minutes ago, Revenant said:

England and it's monarchy are interesting in that, they're among the very few countries in Europe that still has a royal family and it wasn't wiped out, but the monarchy survived by giving up a lot of power and in a lot of ways getting leashed by the parliament. It's funny to think that in the 16th century you already had a parliament passing restrictions on and dictating terms to the royals - more than 125 years before The Bloodless Revolution and more than 220 years before the American Revolution..

I find that interesting as well.  England was very progressive and ahead of its time in many ways pertaining to the relationship of parliament and the monarchy.  Also of note to European Royal Families....Though they were deposed, the Ottoman Family still exists.  I believe they go by the surname Osmanoglu.  Most of them live in France, the UK and the United States though some of them have returned to Turkey in recent years.  So they're still around too, but they have no official titles or powers.

That's a very interesting write up Jack....I didn't really know much about Philip II before, but it seems I may have missed out on some interesting history.  And I never knew that any of his coins bore his title as the King of England.  That's what I love about this place......you never know what you may learn!  And I like the coin as well.  It's way before the time I generally collect coins from (my earliest collections which I pursue regularly are really late Ottoman as I focus on the Young Turk Era, which starts in 1909 and some of Victoria's coins for British India, which start in 1862) but looking at this coin and the one you posted in Revenant's journal entry is making me realize these older issues have their own charm.  Who knows?  I could probably do worse than to pick up a couple of Ottoman Yuzluks and see how I feel about them!

Cheers!

~Tom

1 hour ago, jgenn said:

Here's an écu from my collection featuring the "winged genius" as well as the king of France -- clearly a transitional period.  Louis XVI was called Citizen Louis Capet during the four months before his appointment with the guillotine.  He was beheaded on January 21st, 1793 so this coin was possibly minted during the brief period of that year when he was still alive.

 

And Jack, may I compliment you on a very beautiful coin!  Thanks for sharing that one with us!

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The recurring theme of this coin / design is “freedom,” not religion, faith or God. This is not a religious image - it’s a post-enlightenment image.

Well, Revenant, you have completely changed my mind on the French Freedom coin!  I used to really dislike this coin because I thought it really was an angel and I really dislike religion (not any particular religion mind you, all religion, so I'm not picking on anyone!) and all things connected to it.  It's sometimes very hard to be a non-believer in a Christian majority nation and that's something I've lived with my whole life being a non-believer from a non-believer family.  I have dealt with some horrible bigotry and intolerance from Christians in my life.  I'm not trying to stir up any trouble or upset anyone who is Christian but is a good person by saying that, I'm just saying it because it's been a true fact in my life and something I've had to struggle against.  My fiancee has it even worse as she is a non-believer with a mother whose devotion to Catholicism sometimes reaches levels that, I don't know what else to call it aside from unhealthy.  But after reading your write-up, I see that the French Freedom coin is something very much akin to the Young Turk Ottoman Nickel Para coins that I love so much.  Those coins, minted by another bunch of revolutionaries who were absolutely fed up with religion (among other things) and what it was doing to their society, feature the Young Turk motto of Freedom, Justice, Equality on the obverse, above the Tughra.  I think that Dupre was trying to send that same message with an image rather than words.  Now, I see a coin that I used to despise in a new light as a beautiful image with an equally beautiful message.

Another great entry Revenant!  Keep them coming. 

Cheers!

~Tom