BillJones

I have a Proof set run that goes back to 1936. So I keep the date run going. I don't buy the clad sets anymore, however. I buy only the silver sets. 

So far as the "Should be in circulation thing" is concerned, I buy whatever is in the set. Even in the 19th century, there were "Proof only issues." The main thing that bores me are the women's quarters, which really aren't necessary, but they are there for political reasons. 

From my observations "grade-flation" continues and CAC as mostly gone along with it. If CAC were not going along with it, the supply of CAC approved coins would be drying up. 

I bought this Type I gold dollar many years ago from a dealer who was playing the crack-out game. It is in a PCGS MS-64 holder and he figured it would make MS-65 which carried a $2 to $3 increase in value at the time. I paid too much because of that. It's as good as the MS-65 coins are now, but the MS-65 coins are only selling for a couple thousand dollars. So I'm behind the market with the most common gold dollar of all, the 1853-P.

As for CAC, they dampened my purchases of U.S. coins considerably. I got into British and Roman Imperial coins, and have really enjoyed it. 

On 2/14/2024 at 11:50 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Outside of the 1794 Dollar being the first silver dollar minted, I don't know too much about the others so anybody can feel free to provide more info on what makes them special.  

I take it a $50 gold "slug" is a privately minted $50 gold piece minted by California private minters during the Gold Rush ?

I'd like on the augustus Humbert $50 gold pieces that was issued by the U.S. Assay Office. 

The Rolled Edge $10 gold is one of the patterns that was made during the time that the mint and Augustus St. Gaudens' representative, Herman Herring, were testing designs for the $10 Indian design.

The King of Siam Proof set was an 1834 set of U.S. Proof coins that were struck for diplomatic purposes. The stars of the set were an 1804 "Original" silver dollar and a Proof 1804 dated $10 gold. The set was once owned by Anna Leonowns who was the inspiration for the film "Anna and the King of Siam" and the Rogers and Hammerstein musical, "The King and I," 

On 2/6/2024 at 1:43 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I take it you're not a fan of infinitesimal gradation, i.e., extending Sheldon from 0 to 100. There's big money behind dem dar small numbers.  🤣

So you want the 100 point system? If so, you are for a huge windfall for the Third Party Graders. 

On 12/11/2023 at 6:35 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

A bit of a miss but still worth some money. They were tough on this coin.

It has been my observation that they have gotten a little tougher on scratches than they used to be. I see ”scratched” on the holder and have to look for a while to find it. They used to be more obvious. 

On 1/5/2024 at 4:58 PM, RWB said:

The Boston Museum of Fine Arts sold off most of its coins 30 years ago -- this included the ONLY pattern 1908 $5, which had been donated by Bigelow to the Museum. The coin was unknown until my research and nobody knows where it is now. It will seem distinctive only to someone who understands what to look for.

As for SI, I think they loan items, but do not sell them. They got burned on the fakes that JJ Ford and Stacks foisted off on them with the Lilly collection.

It is interesting to note that some of the coins in the Lilly collection tax deal were fakes. I was too young to have enough money to have any dealings with JJ Ford, but I read about some of the his shenanigans in the Eric P. Newman biography that Heritage published. Collectors from my father's generation told me that you had to watch you step when you make deals with Ford. 

These coins generally come in high grades, like MS-65 and 66. I located one of the sales devices which came with the coin when it was issued. 

This coin came with it, but it was not the original piece. Since I already had a certified example, I sold the coin and kept the York Country holder. 

I have gotten the log-in straighten out on both devices. 

Here is the handout I gave at the end of the presentation. Here are the important points:

• Go to the certification verification pages at PCGS and NGC.
• Enter the serial number on the slab. 
• If the response comes back "invalid serial number," there is probably a problem. There is an outside chance that the slab label has a mechanical error, but that is very unusual. 
• If you get a response PCGS and NGC verification responses will have pictures of the coin or the slab for newer slabs.
• If there are no pictures, PCGS might have one or more citations where the item has been sold in a major auction. The auction site will have pictures.
• If the item in the slab does not match the picture, it is probably a counterfeit.
• If you get no pictures or auction responses, you can got to PCGS Coin Facts to compare the item with pictures of genuine coins. This is not as good as getting a pictures of the actual coin in the slab.
• Jack D. Young has posted many pictures of counterfeits with tips on how to spot them under his name in the “CoinWeek” site. You may got there to sharper your eye for spotting counterfeits.

Uneven dentils around the rim often give these pieces away. The really great first photos of this thing show that the dentils are not the same all the way around on both sides. 

It also has a layer of what I call "shoe polish toning" on both sides. It's not a definitive marker for a fake, but you often see it. It's funny, but a piece of the "shoe polish" got into Ms. Liberty's eye. She looks like she's rolling her eye in shame for being including on this thing. 

I can log-in on my desktop computer, but cannot log-in with my iPad. It's very frustrating. I don't know what I am doing wrong. 

I have tried repeatedly to log into the NGC Chat Boards with my iPad. It will not accept my password. Yet the same password works on my desktop. Has anyone else had the same problem? 

On 12/27/2023 at 4:28 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Should be fantastic, wish I was going. 

Any chance it will be recorded and available for viewing at a later date ?

I'll see what I can do with on-line media. It's been an education for me with the cell phone and iPad. I know a lot more about coins than I do about using devices. I have gotten the PCGS chip to work on my cell phone. 

On 12/12/2023 at 4:05 PM, RWB said:

Absolutely correct. Further in the 19th century it was normal practice to put unsold proofs (and ones that failed inspection) into circulation at their face value. They were, after all, legal tender coins. Also, when families faced economic hardship, coin collections were among the first possessions to be sold or spent.

Many years ago, the late coin dealer, Robert Bachelder, had an original 1904 Proof set that had everything but the silver dollar. He told me that the owner had spent the silver dollar during the Great Depression when he was short of cash. 

There was another story about a depression era dealer, I think it might have been Abe Kossoff, declining to buy a complete 19th century gold set. He paid something like $5 for three dollar gold, but declined to buy the $20 gold. Why? He was concerned that he didn't have a customers who could pay $20 floor that was under the value of the piece. I suppose that he didn't have heart to take the coin to the bank. and lose a couple dollars if he didn't sell it. 

Of course, all of these coins would be collectors' treasures today, which would be worth many thousands of dollars. It's hard to believe how tough times were then. My parents were lucky. My father lost $75 in gold coins he won for graduating 1st in his class from high school when he deposited it into a local bank that failed. My mother's family survived the Depression and kept their house, farm and store, but she was scared by the experience was very concerned about money, even when they were doing well in the 1950s. 

My upper limit on raw items is much lower for U.S. coins than it is for foreign coins, tokens and medals. The reason is that certification is so engrained in the U.S. coin market. If the coin is not slabbed, you won't get the best price for it. 

I really dislike certified medals. The trouble is the slabs are so big that storing them is a problem. A valuable medal takes up a lot of space in safe deposit box if it is slabbed. You also can't enjoy the piece as well. 

NGC does a wonderful with grading imperial Roman coins. Still I prefer the coins raw. I can handle the pieces, and I can take better photographs. 

@Qwiksword, Your coin is definitely not Mint State. It has a definite rub on the eagle's breast feathers. This is not unusual for this date. there are many coins that are "close," but not quite Mint State. 

It's still good if the coin graded AU-50 ($380) or AU-58 ($1,900). I think that it is closer to the AU-50 than AU-58. The reason is that collectors who can't afford the Mint State pieces can use the AU coins which are a close match to the Uncirculated coins. The problem is if the piece has been cleaned or polished. I can't tell if that has been done to it from your photos. 

On 11/15/2023 at 7:15 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Interesting.  Minus Taxy's book, who's to say this isn't simply a variety like coins with and w/o rays? In France, numismatists accept the fact that the edges of some 1907 20-franc roosters are "embossed" with the high-relief legend used on the earlier Originals minted from 1899 to 1906. Only problem is, though they exist in numbers significant enough to be recognized, no one does -- but no one dares suggest they are counterfeits. (I may be wrong, but I cannot recall ever seeing a well-worn contemporary counterfeit.)

Yours is a well-worn piece that has seen circulation. Who knows, maybe RWB will discover a memo somewhere acknowledging them as unusual varieties not all of which were recalled. Under the circumstances, I would like to appeal to @powermad5000 's sense of fair play and artistic expression to grant you a variance. Only problem is mere possession of a counterfeit is unlawful and illegal. Any idea what it's made of?

No, it's a contemporary counterfeit all the way. It did not begin its life at the Philadelphia Mint.