BillJones

The modern cent (since mid 1982) is made of zinc with a copper coating. The piece you have has post mint mint damage and has no collector value. The piece may have been dropped in a parking lot and run over a few times there by grinding the surfaces into the pavement. The copper coating was removed and the zinc below it exposed.

Reid1836, your 1916-D Mercury Dime would be EF-40 or 45 using the current grading standards. What used to VG with respect to the vertical lines on the ax is now VF.

The grading services caused this change single handedly. If you want a key date Mercury dime with all of the vertical lines, you have buy one in at least EF.

Neither of these books should be used for price or value. The prices are locked months in advance of printing, and may be a year or more out of date by the time you use it.

 

The RedBook is useful for mintage and background information.

 

The Blue Book is not useful for much of anything, and I'm not sure why it is still printed.

I agree with this statement. The Red Book contains a lot of useful information, and I still use it every day to look up mintages and general information.

I have viewed the Blue Book as useless from the time I was a YN in the 1960s. I have built a complete set of Red Books and have kept many of the copies I used in the 1960s - except that ones that fell apart ... . Falling apart was a problem for the Red Book in the 1970s, and I treat the books I have from the era very gingerly when I have to open them for some information.

I don't think I have any old Blue Books around although there might be hiding hiding on bookshelf somewhere.

If you are a collector who buys the coin, not the holder, both registries are dead for you. From now on, only the slaves to brand loyalty can play the game.

If I buy an NGC coin that works for me, great! If not, I'm not concerned about the registry any more. Both registries are not concerned with honoring the finest sets. They are only concerned with marketing and coercion. As such both are irrelevant to the study of numismatics.

I have placed a few bids on both of the American Sovereigns with no luck (yet). Interesting history and they would go nicely with my soverign sets. For now - I can look at Bill's.

The nice ones that have been given low Mint State Grades, MS-61 or 62, will run about $3,000 retail. The large one, which is more common, is influenced by the current bullion price because there is almost an ounce of gold in it.

The grading is conservative on these pieces from what I've seen. The smaller piece I have in the PCGS holder, is better than the grade assigned IMO. There is a lot of open space on the large one, and I'm not sure but that some of the marks you see were on planchet before it was struck. The designs were strictly utilitarian, which made it easier for the Swiss and Lebanese counterfeiters to copy them.

I have done some preliminary work with the custom sets, and have found that it works quite well. I'll be spending most of my efforts on those from this point forward. I hope that people will open these sets and look at them over time.

I'm pretty much done with the registry concept. The one brand only restriction by both services means that I would have to tailor my purchases to brand loyalty, and I'm not going to collect that way. If the coin works I buy it. It does not matter to me if it's NGC or PCGS.

I've looked at the PCGS registry, and it's a pain to navigate and the point system they use is totally confusing and complicated. I've posted up a few items over there, but no set could ever be complete because I have mixed PCGS and NGC coins in them.

I don't waste money on crossovers. The only thing that is worthwhile is crack-outs for upgrades. Any time you send in a coin in the other guy's holder, you have two strikes against you from the start. You are lucky if you get the same grade, even if you deserve to get the same grade. Crossovers are like a dog that chases its tail. It's a waste of time, money and energy.

Thank you!

I just added a custom set for the 1945 - 7 "American sovereign" which was a gold coin the Philadelphia Mint made for Saudi Arabia. I could post a picture and write-up box for my 1947 one pound piece that is PCGS graded, but now I can!

Is there any way of posting pictures of PCGS coins in the Custom Set mode if they are not already in the NGC registry?

Thank you, Dena. This is a step in the right direction. How many coins can you put in a custom set? The one time I built something like this about a 1913 Proof set you could only have have one picture, which was very limiting to the say the least.

I hope you're wrong, but I'm not holding my breath. If there is any damage as a result of the decision, I don't think it will ever be reversible.

It's not reversible. One think I learned about big business executives when I worked in the corporate world is that they are stubborn has hell. Their company could be going into the bankruptcy as a result of a bad decision or policy, but they will almost never back down. The only way to reverse a decision was to fire them.

To me the Continental Dollar is a lost cause. They were always just beyond my financial reach when I didn't have tons of money, and and prices were much lower. The situation is similar now that I have more. Adding to the fun, (no pun intended) is that 99% of the raw ones are copies. I've seen some of the copies fool collectors and dealers with a lot of experience. They are not all cast copies that could have been bought for $1.00 at Woolworths or the gift shops.

The last time I priced one was at a Winter FUN show. I must of looked really stupid, because the quote was close to $200,000, which was WAY BEYOND the market at the time. That dealer must have thought he saw a rich rube in his midst. I get mistaken for that, even in my old age.

Sometimes it's good to look dumb. Other times not.

Excellent post Kaiser14! I hope that it does not get deleted the way my post was. It makes a very valid point that the NGC management does not have the integrity to acknowledge. I have run into the same problems with my Classic Head gold sets.

If you crossover your coins to NGC, it's really only the holder that might be worth less. The coin is still worth it's value based on it's numismatic merits; not on what PCGS groupies say it's worth. Your ideology plants you right in that hole that PCGS dug for you. Unfortunately there may be no room to grow after the holder premium is paid.

Also consider this: your coin only has a value based on what a willing buyer would pay. So unless you are selling your coins what difference does it make ? I think they show better in NGC holders IMO.

It is not "ideology;" it's the truth. If you can find a really good NGC coin, you can buy it for less money, but when you get ready to sell it, it's still an NGC coin that generally brings lower prices than PCGS on the wholesale market.

If the NGC coin is an upgrade candidate, the only way to get the same or higher grade is to crack it out and submit it to PCGS as a raw coin. You have two and seven-eights strikes against you when you submit an NGC graded coin in the slab to PCGS. If you really want to go for the same grade or somthing better, you have to bite the bullet and crack it out.

I worked very hard to get some very difficult sets 100% complete. These include ALL of the U.S. type coins from the half cent to the Anthony and Sakie dollars, ALL of the U.S. gold coins coins from 1795 to 1933 and All of the U.S. commemorative type coins from the Columbian half dollar, through the 11 gold set (Both Pan-Pac $50 gold coins, including one in an NGC holder) through to the Iowa commemorative half dollar.

IF NGC pulls all of the PCGS coins out my sets, thus making them incomplete, I will not spend another dime directly with NGC. I will only buy coins in their slabs if the coin works for me.

I am a collector who felt "betrayed" by NGC's decision. It has nothing to do with keeping records about my collection. I have a spreadsheet and photos with that information plus, I believe, you can still post coins of all types, raw or certified, on the NGC inventory function, unless NGC has ended that option along with the registry posting. As a collector, I was building my collection for over 40 years before I got involved with the registry.

I find it ironic that Legend would even be commenting on this issue, let alone slamming those who have commented on it. On a retail basis Legend has refused to market NGC graded coins, even those that have received CAC approval. They will accept NGC coins in their auctions, but not for their retail sales operations. So far as Legend is concerned, whatever NGC is doing has little to do with their business plan.

I feel the betrayal because I have done what I could to defend the NGC product through the years against the "PCGS only" attitude that many collectors espouse. NGC took its action with no consultation from its customers and stakeholders, and for that reason I shall never again defend the NGC product against its critics.

Your concerns regarding the development and upkeep on a new, independent registry site are the very reasons that I suggested that the ANA assume the role of keeper of the registry. The ANA is the watchdog, promoter, and overall spokesman for the numismatist society and therefore should avail themselves of every tool to support the coin collectors who support them. Many coin collectors like to compete against other coin collectors for whom has the best set. This encourages collectors to upgrade and add to their sets. Other collectors may be attracted to the various types of coin sets they can complete with the purchase of a few additional coins they had not previously considered purchasing. The registry promotes cash turnover for dealers, PCGS, NGC, ANA and collectors. And, the registry is an important tool to keep the hobby alive.

I'd just like to be able to post of sets of coins with pictures and history. You could award the PCGS no points so far as I'm concerned. The main trouble with that is that once you collection ends up on the second page of the registry, no one ever looks at it.

Thank you for the kind words, CSdit.

Color me surprised. Must be a ton of people actively entering coins on the registry that are basically ignoring these forums then. I could log in once every 24 hours and read all of the new posts in 10 minutes.

Yes, the PCGS forum is much more active as is the Coin Community Family to which I have belonged for about eight months.

There are many registry people who don't participate in forums like this. Given the prices that they sometimes pay for coins that are high up in the condition census pecking order, some of them might have more money than brains.

As a dealer, I was only on the edges of this market. If you can get the material, which is usually very difficult to do, you can get some very high prices for "Top POP" coins. These prices can make auction results look like a class of pikers.

Those prices can also be like an ice storm in July. They can melt very quickly if more coins are graded at the high levels, which has happened to some modern issues.

What surprises me is why either company cares about the registry? There couldn't be more than 250 active collectors on this registry forum? Most of the TPG revenue (I'd estimate 90%) has to come from dealers, who mostly don't care a lick about online registries.

The registries have generated a ton of money for the two leading third party graders. PCGS especially has prompted many dealers to submit coins for high grades and the much coveted "POP 1" status. The registry concept has probably been one of the most successful numismatic marketing strategies in the last two decades.

To be absolutely blunt, I would like to have more NGC graded coins in my sets, but I have not been able to find pieces that pleased me in their holders of late. Part of the reason for that is that so many of the good NGC coins have been crossed to PCGS, but that is not all of the problem.

Both services have let their standards slip. Too many coins have been cleaned and are optimistically graded from both services. That is why CAC exists although I have issues with their grading too.

My most valuable coin, and the one for which I paid the most money by far is in an NGC holder. One of my Panama Pacific $50 gold coins is NGC graded. My 1792 half disme is an NGC holder. I have been a loyal NGC supporter, but I can not agree with the contention that PCGS coins are now over graded and therefore not appropriate for the NGC registry. That is a smokescreen that the NGC executives have built to support this registry power play.

The net result of this will tend to drive me more toward PCGS, not away from them. If I want to post my coins in the sets that I am currently building in a registry, I might as well finish them with PCGS coins since most of them are PCGS graded. This registry move has decreased my interest and loyalty in the NGC product, not enhanced it.

The ANA already has something very similar in place; it's just not used by very many.

The ANA would be an ideal provider for such a service. They could further their goal of spreading knowledge to collectors and avoid the petty attitude projected by the grading companies.

Are there any access addresses for the ANA resgistry or whatever they might call it?

Perhaps if you had called for a token to slam Trump AND a token a slam Hillary, none of us would have taken note of it. We all know that both of them were flawed in the recent campaign, and both of them could easily be subject to satire.

The trouble is, you went after only one side after at particularly contentious race during which considerable mud was slug from both sides. Perhaps if you had waited six months or so it would have gone down better.

At any rate if you leaving because of this, it's too bad. There are bigger issues around here, if you have been reading the messages, that will have a greater effect upon the enjoyment many of us have had on this site.

What exactly does NGC gain from the decision? If the issue is that some people were only interested in NGC only sets, then there was a filter for it. The only thing I can think of is that NGC may have become tired of manually verifying the PCGS certification numbers, which I could understand.

NGC thinks that it is going to encourage us to by more NGC graded coins. It's not going work with me. I buy the coins I like at the prices that are fair.

I have defended NGC against the "PCGS only crowd" for years, and I feel betrayed. I have enjoyed the NGC registry and have spent many hours to make my sets as attractive and educational as I could.

In the past NGC showed that its leadership was far more open minded than the executives at PCGS. Now they have stooped to the PCGS level.

You have lost my voice, Mr. Salzberg. I will NOT to go out of my way to defend your product again, because you have betrayed me. This decision stinks, and if you have any sense, you will rescind it

A sound business model.

No, it isn't. It is very short sighted decision that will hurt the hobby with very little if any gain for NGC. It might very well hurt NGC in the long run because it will hurt collector enthusiasm.

I find this decision to be very disappointing. I have worked for years to build registry sets with photos and notes with the goal of educating collectors. Now there are limits to what I can do in the future.

I have refused to make much of an effort to participate in the PCGS registry because they do not accept NGC coins. I only got into in a token way so that I could use their Internet search feature. Now I am facing the same situation with the NGC registry.

This will not prompt me buy more NGC coins. I buy coins because I think they are properly graded and fairly priced.

This is a very bad, short sighted decision. You have hurt the credibility of your registry, Mr. Salzberg.