Copper 'Droplets' Obverse & Reverse on US Penny 1964 Denver 1 1

[tonyzz]

Hello, lately I found this photo of an old US penny taken by my uncle from his collection (this penny is most likely lost, so I only have these pictures unfortunately). I was wondering if anyone had an idea of what could have caused these both sides copper 'droplet' (if it is). When analyzing coin alignement, we can see that droplets are on the same location, but not perfectly align however.

Thanks in advance!

Tony

[Jason Abshier]

That looks like some PMD something that happened after minting process definitely no way that happened during minting … perhaps some stuck it through soldering iron with copper wiring … just very shiny looking too definitely PMD 

[Fenntucky Mike]

Looks like a drill mark. PMD.

[Greenstang]

When you are saying droplets, I take it that they are raised.   
There is no way that happened during the striking of the coin so it is damage of some sort.   
Sometimes with damage unless you were there at the time, you may never know exactly
how it happened but it doesn’t really matter, damage is damage.

[J P M]

Drill mark for sure, Mike    It is not lined up perfect because the dies are not lined up as good as your overlay Tony.

 

Edited April 8 by J P M

[tonyzz]

Yes, I agree with you all, definitely PMD to me as well, I don't really see when this could have happened during manufacture process. 

I was more wondering if this kind of oddity was already seen here in the past and what could explain it. What it looks like to me (but I'm definitely not an expert at all as you can guess), is the same 'droplet' shape generated by a welding pen. But is there any kind of PMD behavior where someone would do such modification/repair to a coin?

@Fenntucky Mike I thought about this too, that the picture could create a kind of visual illusion and that it's in fact a drill cavity on the reverse creating a protuberance on the obverse. But when doing the coin alignement experiment, we can see the two anomalies are not perfectly aligned, what could eliminate this theory isn't it?
@J P M oh interesting! In in this case this could definitely be drill mark. Is there any resource showing exact coin sides alignement somewhere by any chance?
@Greenstang Actually this is how I saw them based on the picture, it seems raised to me, but it seems based on previous answer that I may be wrong and it's a visual illusion

Thank you all for your replies, really helpful!

[Just Bob]

On 4/8/2024 at 6:33 AM, tonyzz said:

 

@Fenntucky Mike
@J P M Is there any resource showing exact coin sides alignement somewhere by any chance?
@Greenstang

Sorry, I don't know how to remove the names. 

Picture from Maddieclashes.com

Edited April 9 by Just Bob

[VKurtB]

These are unfinished drill holes. 

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

I can see where people might be mistaking these anomalies for drill holes, but where they are in fact raised. To me, it looks like someone practicing a process called brazing. It is similar to welding, but is done at lower temperatures on metals which are much softer than steel. I can see where there is adjacent bubbling of the surface next to the raised portion so heat was definitely used to attach the "droplet" as you call it. It is a process more aggressive than using a simple soldering iron, but not at extreme temperatures used in typical welding of steel and is usually reserved for softer metals such as copper, brass, and bronze. The "droplet" was left behind from the brazing rod, much like a welding rod, or the flux used in soldering. It is something used to "pool" the metals together at higher temperatures to join two metals together.

Whether or not these spots "align" to me makes little difference. Post mint damage many times cannot be exactly explained as some people can do some really strange things to coins on occasion and it is difficult to try to pin down the "why".

I could be wrong, but that is my humble opinion of what I am seeing here.

Edited April 9 by powermad5000

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 4/8/2024 at 7:33 AM, tonyzz said:

@Fenntucky Mike I thought about this too, that the picture could create a kind of visual illusion and that it's in fact a drill cavity on the reverse creating a protuberance on the obverse. But when doing the coin alignement experiment, we can see the two anomalies are not perfectly aligned, what could eliminate this theory isn't it?

Looks like two drill marks to me, one on each side. You can see where the drill bit or tool walked on the obv and both sides have what appears to be metal displacement. The alignment, meh, who knows. Damage is damage, doesn't really matter how or why.

[J P M]

On 4/9/2024 at 6:19 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Looks like two drill marks to me, one on each side. You can see where the drill bit or tool walked on the obv and both sides have what appears to be metal displacement. The alignment, meh, who knows. Damage is damage, doesn't really matter how or why.

Correct Mike it does not matter. I will explain my comment. For the OP, There is only one drill mark on the reverse. when you look at the obverse you are seeing the tip of the bit that did not come through. When the OP did an overlay, he aligned two shots over each other at zero tolerance. But we all know it is rare for both dies to be perfectly lined up, so that is why it looks like two drill holes.

Edited April 9 by J P M

[Fenntucky Mike]

How many ways can a coin be damaged? The world may never know....