Box proofs 50s and 40s 1 1

[Halbrook Family]

Were the older boxed coins sealed when they came out? I was at the coin shop yesterday and a lady was selling off a bunch things. She had maybe 10 of the old boxes of coins. They are proofs right? I asked the sales guy to hold them for me if possible. They looked like they were well taken care of though i didnt see the coins themselves. Do they tarnish really bad in the boxes?

[Coinbuf]

Impossible to answer without knowing what you mean by "box".  Can you post a photo of not of these sets/boxes?

[Henri Charriere]

I do not know what an individual dealer's policy is regarding opening original Mint-issued sealed boxes.  I would imagine if you are a principal, or serious pospective buyer, you should be able to view the merchandise you are prepared to pay for. I am guessing by sealed boxes, you mean flat boxed sets sealed for shipment. Either way, the sealed boxes should be unsealed for examination. Nobody can guarantee the quality of any such packaged proof set without unveiling it in your presence, with of without photos posted here which can only verify year if issue. An intact box is no indication as the to quality of it contents. That is a call only you can make.

Edited March 18 by Henri Charriere
Correct typo.

[Sandon]

    I assume that you are referring to the original mint packaging for U.S. proof sets issued from 1936-42, 1950-54, and some 1955s. I've been unable to locate pertinent photos. Such packaging consists of a small square cardboard box, in which would be enclosed the five coins (cent through half dollar), each in a separate cellophane or, for later (1950s) sets, soft plastic sleeve. The sleeves were fastened with staples and the five sleeves wrapped together in tissue paper and packed into the box. If what you saw differs from this description, it would not be the original packaging or at least not completely so.

    Most sets of this era, especially the earlier ones, were long ago removed from this original packaging and placed in privately made hard plastic or other holders, and more recently many pieces have been encapsulated by grading services. 

   Coins kept in the original packaging differ in their state of preservation. Some have become toned, spotted, or hazy, while others remained more or less pristine. Sometimes the staples rusted and adversely affected the coins. I've heard of sets where the coins had been removed, "cleaned" or switched with non-proofs, returned to their sleeves and re-stapled. However, in 2019 I saw an original 1954 proof set whose sleeves still contained five superb gem (Proof 67 or likely higher) coins that appeared unchanged from their time of issue.  

    As both the original packaging and privately made holders are highly susceptible to tampering, you should carefully inspect the coins in any such sets that you are offered to ascertain that they are proofs and in decent condition. If you don't have the experience to make these determinations, you should consider purchasing these earlier proof coins in reputable grading service holders.

[VKurtB]

On 3/13/2024 at 5:12 PM, Sandon said:

    I assume that you are referring to the original mint packaging for U.S. proof sets issued from 1936-42, 1950-54, and some 1955s. I've been unable to locate pertinent photos. Such packaging consists of a small square cardboard box, in which would be enclosed the five coins (cent through half dollar), each in a separate cellophane or, for later (1950s) sets, soft plastic sleeve. The sleeves were fastened with staples and the five sleeves wrapped together in tissue paper and packed into the box. If what you saw differs from this description, it would not be the original packaging or at least not completely so.

    Most sets of this era, especially the earlier ones, were long ago removed from this original packaging and placed in privately made hard plastic or other holders, and more recently many pieces have been encapsulated by grading services. 

   Coins kept in the original packaging differ in their state of preservation. Some have become toned, spotted, or hazy, while others remained more or less pristine. Sometimes the staples rusted and adversely affected the coins. I've heard of sets where the coins had been removed, "cleaned" or switched with non-proofs, returned to their sleeves and re-stapled. However, in 2019 I saw an original 1954 proof set whose sleeves still contained five superb gem (Proof 67 or likely higher) coins that appeared unchanged from their time of issue.  

    As both the original packaging and privately made holders are highly susceptible to tampering, you should carefully inspect the coins in any such sets that you are offered to ascertain that they are proofs and in decent condition. If you don't have the experience to make these determinations, you should consider purchasing these earlier proof coins in reputable grading service holders.

An original 1951 box proof set. Even the stamp is cool. 

Edited March 14 by VKurtB

[Halbrook Family]

I was in my local coin shop the other day and these two little old ladies were in there selling what I think was one of their husbands coin collection. I saw they had a few of the old box proof sets. About a half a dozen of them. I asked if they could hold some of them for me. Anyways I buy a unc and proof sets at the store and they didn't want to buy a bunch of things from the ladies and they asked the ladies if they wanted to sell them for me. I bought 32 unc and proof sets from them for $52 and I got some loose Canadian silver change (1919 and 1905 5 cents) and two of the unc sets had 40% silver half dollars. I needed 10 of the sets and upgraded a few more. Also included was a 1976 Denver souvenir set.  also a New Zealand 50th anniversary set of coinage 1933 - 1983. 

 Sorry for the long story but  I picked up one of the boxes today. A 1955 one. The guy who owned these kept his stuff in excellent shape. The unc sets and the proofs sets were excellent. The proofs were all still sealed. Obviously this box should be kept sealed right? I paid $125 for it. I also made $50 on the sets I didn't need and got about $40 in silver. I have them holding a 1954 set and a 1953 set as well. Are these sets worth less if opened? Is there varieties in the 1955? 

[Halbrook Family]

On 3/14/2024 at 3:29 AM, VKurtB said:

An original 1951 box proof set. Even the stamp is cool. 

That is great. is this in your collection? This one is double sealed? That is amazing. 

[Halbrook Family]

with the coins came this 1972 coin newsletter from canada. You could buy a roll of 1957 BU dimes for $19. 

[J P M]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:00 AM, Halbrook Family said:

I was in my local coin shop the other day and these two little old ladies were in there selling what I think was one of their husbands coin collection. I saw they had a few of the old box proof sets. About a half a dozen of them. I asked if they could hold some of them for me. Anyways I buy a unc and proof sets at the store and they didn't want to buy a bunch of things from the ladies and they asked the ladies if they wanted to sell them for me. I bought 32 unc and proof sets from them for $52 and I got some loose Canadian silver change (1919 and 1905 5 cents) and two of the unc sets had 40% silver half dollars. I needed 10 of the sets and upgraded a few more. Also included was a 1976 Denver souvenir set.  also a New Zealand 50th anniversary set of coinage 1933 - 1983. 

 Sorry for the long story but  I picked up one of the boxes today. A 1955 one. The guy who owned these kept his stuff in excellent shape. The unc sets and the proofs sets were excellent. The proofs were all still sealed. Obviously this box should be kept sealed right? I paid $125 for it. I also made $50 on the sets I didn't need and got about $40 in silver. I have them holding a 1954 set and a 1953 set as well. Are these sets worth less if opened? Is there varieties in the 1955? 

Wow a 55 that has not been opened is a cool find.

[ldhair]

You never know what the proofs will look like in these little boxes. They can be really pretty or really ugly. I have seen some nice cameo coins in these boxes. As a normal, these sets are worth more in the sealed box. Be careful on these. People have been known to open and reseal the boxes. Sometimes the staple has rusted and has harmed the coins.  

[Jason Abshier]

Old sealed proof sets , old original wrapped coins are pretty cool even sealed mint bags are neat …. Not my cup a tea tho , that’s like buying coins blindly not knowing what they look like inside …. I wouldn’t be able to hold myself back I would be to tempted to break the seals just to have peek inside I would be dishearten to find all coins were ugly toned …

[Halbrook Family]

On 3/15/2024 at 3:27 AM, J P M said:

Wow a 55 that has not been opened is a cool find.

Going to go get the 1954 next week unopened. They opened the 1953 one though

[Halbrook Family]

The two older ladies were high fiving each other with the sale. I was pretty happy with all the unc and proof setsGot to fill in a bunch I needed cheaply and will make a few bucks on the ones I don't need. Upgraded some as well. 

[Halbrook Family]

He told me the prices on the boxes. One was $700

[Sandon]

    What you've bought is a true "pig in a poke". While I recall a fad decades ago of collectors and dealers buying and selling purportedly "unopened" proof and mint sets and even GSA silver dollars, I haven't heard of this much in recent years.  The $125 you paid for the 1955 proof set is full retail--Coin World Values has them at a range of $120 to $130--and you have no assurances of the actual contents of the box. I would never buy coins that I haven't had an opportunity to examine in person or at least through high resolution photos.  I would require opportunity to inspect such sets before buying them. What is the point of collecting coins if you can't look at and admire them, anyway?

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/15/2024 at 4:29 PM, Sandon said:

.... What is the point of collecting coins if you can't look at and admire them, anyway?

I agree.  Nothing I own is under lock and key -- including my front door. My position is best expressed by the official state motto of New Hampshire:  Live Free or Die.

[J P M]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:27 AM, J P M said:

Wow a 55 that has not been opened is a cool find.

 

On 3/15/2024 at 4:29 PM, Sandon said:

    What you've bought is a true "pig in a poke". While I recall a fad decades ago of collectors and dealers buying and selling purportedly "unopened" proof and mint sets and even GSA silver dollars, I haven't heard of this much in recent years.  The $125 you paid for the 1955 proof set is full retail--Coin World Values has them at a range of $120 to $130--and you have no assurances of the actual contents of the box. I would never buy coins that I haven't had an opportunity to examine in person or at least through high resolution photos.  I would require opportunity to inspect such sets before buying them. What is the point of collecting coins if you can't look at and admire them, anyway?

I agree I have seen many box sets and all are priced at the $125 mark. And yes I would have opened it by now just to see how bad the rust is on the folds and see if it had a BB. If you are just into coins to flip them then it will not matter. 

[Halbrook Family]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:29 PM, Sandon said:

    What you've bought is a true "pig in a poke". While I recall a fad decades ago of collectors and dealers buying and selling purportedly "unopened" proof and mint sets and even GSA silver dollars, I haven't heard of this much in recent years.  The $125 you paid for the 1955 proof set is full retail--Coin World Values has them at a range of $120 to $130--and you have no assurances of the actual contents of the box. I would never buy coins that I haven't had an opportunity to examine in person or at least through high resolution photos.  I would require opportunity to inspect such sets before buying them. What is the point of collecting coins if you can't look at and admire them, anyway?

I know it's a shoot. But a sealed 1955 box went for $295. $250 $230 $240 $279 and $314. Opened they get Lots less then that. I was going to get the 1954 one for $125 as well. They also had the 1940 one but I passed on that. Too much money. I picked up this persons unc sets Most of the 70's ones the nickels actually had steps on them. I made $50 selling off my unc sets and kept his. So I kind of got the first 1955 set for $75. 

[Halbrook Family]

On 3/17/2024 at 5:09 AM, J P M said:

 

I agree I have seen many box sets and all are priced at the $125 mark. And yes I would have opened it by now just to see how bad the rust is on the folds and see if it had a BB. If you are just into coins to flip them then it will not matter. 

All this guys proof sets I bought were not opened as well. 1970 to 1985. There was $30 of silver Canadian coins in there. But a sack of other coins from canada. Also got this NZ set. I made $50 off this seller plus $30 of silver and upgraded a bunch of my unc sets and added a bunch of proof sets to my collection. And still got a few unc doubles left over. 

[Halbrook Family]

This canadian sales catalog is interesting. It's from 1972 and amazing prices on silver.  

[VKurtB]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:02 PM, Halbrook Family said:

That is great. is this in your collection? This one is double sealed? That is amazing. 

This is in my collection and the inner sleeves are still stapled and the tissue paper is still in there. The box has been carefully opened. 

[Halbrook Family]

On 3/18/2024 at 9:11 AM, VKurtB said:

This is in my collection and the inner sleeves are still stapled and the tissue paper is still in there. The box has been carefully opened. 

It's the 1951 proof set? At the store when they bought them they opened the 1953 one and it looked really good. The 1955 flat pack sells for lots. Yours is very nice. 

[VKurtB]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:19 PM, Halbrook Family said:

It's the 1951 proof set? At the store when they bought them they opened the 1953 one and it looked really good. The 1955 flat pack sells for lots. Yours is very nice. 

I have several 1955 boxed, 2 1955 flat, one. 1954 boxed and this 1951 boxed, which I metaphorically stole a couple of years ago at an auction. The photos looked sketchy, but I examined the lot and the coins were fantastic. 

[Halbrook Family]

On 3/18/2024 at 2:17 PM, VKurtB said:

I have several 1955 boxed, 2 1955 flat, one. 1954 boxed and this 1951 boxed, which I metaphorically stole a couple of years ago at an auction. The photos looked sketchy, but I examined the lot and the coins were fantastic. 

The 1955 flat sells for a good amount. You have any of the 1940's?  Just wondering what Unc and proofs sets do you have in your collection? 

 

One other question if a coin roll you get at bank in a white and blue roll is all the same. For example 2023 D Nickels would these be considered uncirculated? 

[Sandon]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:16 PM, Halbrook Family said:

One other question if a coin roll you get at bank in a white and blue roll is all the same.

   There is no way to know what is in these rolls without opening them. They may have all come from a mint bulk bag of uncirculated coins, or they may be a mixture of coins. I suggest that you open them and, if they are solid date, "new" coins, you transfer them to plastic coin tubes.  If you don't want to save all of them, you can "cherrypick" those that are the best quality in terms of surface preservation, strike and luster and spend the rest.

   Regarding the original topic, on April 3 a Stacks Bowers session includes two lots of single 1950 boxed proof sets and group lots of 1952, 53, and 54 boxed sets.  All of these sets have been opened. Here is the auction photo of one of the 1950 sets, showing how rust from the staple has discolored the cellophane. The nickel shows some green discoloration (possibly corrosion), possibly related to moisture where the set was stored that likely caused the staple to rust. 

 

  

[powermad5000]

To me, this is why things of this nature should all be opened and inspected. I would not buy one unopened in the first place as it is my money and I want to see the coins I am buying. Also why I didn't last long playing the "roll" game. Maybe I am alone on this, but I will open any roll or anything sealed as I will be the end of the unopened mystery.

Thanks @Sandon for providing a photo of the contents of this particular box. To me it is very insightful.

Edited March 20 by powermad5000