1857 O Sitting Liberty Quarter Question 1 1

[Epic Waffle]

Hello again,

I am friendly with 2 local antique store owners that have coins. They are both very old and don't really use the internet. One of them just purchased this 1857 O Sitting Liberty quarter and put it up for sale for $650. Any insight if this coin is real and if this is under priced? If so, would this be (roughly speaking) in the AU range or MS?

[RWB]

The coin is EF and has been harshly cleaned. Consider offering him a conditional sale: you'll buy the coin if it comes back from NGC straight grade of EF-45 or better. Even then, it's worth about 2/3rds of his asking price. (This is the 3rd most common New Orleans mint quarter.)

Just because "They are both very old and don't really use the internet," doesn't mean they won't try to gouge you for every cent.

Edited February 9 by RWB

[Sandon]

   This type of coin is referred to as a "Liberty Seated" or "Seated Liberty" (not "sitting") quarter. The 1857-O in your photos has About Uncirculated or so details but, unfortunately, it has been harshly "cleaned"--or possibly "whizzed" with a rotating wire brush--leaving it with an unnatural brightness and shine.  The coin is substantially impaired. An unimpaired 1857-O quarter has retail list values in the NGC Price Guide of $575 in AU 50 and $825 in AU 55 (Coin World has lower prices), but one this severely "cleaned" might be difficult to sell to a knowledgeable collector for any price. It can be difficult to value a coin like this, but if I were a "budget" collector who wanted to obtain an example of this type or date with this much detail at an affordable price, I might be willing to pay $150 to $200. Otherwise, I'd look for an unimpaired one.

[powermad5000]

It is a Seated Liberty quarter which has been cleaned (improperly) as I can see especially around the stars on the obverse the coloration changes in the fields as your eye moves away from the stars. I would say the cleaning would knock the grade of this coin down to AU level as the surface just cannot be considered MS anymore, as well as there seems to be some light wear on the hair and drapery on the obverse and eagles head, wing tops, claws, and the arrowheads on the reverse, which could be due to the cleaning or from actual circulation.

As for its value, keep in mind details coins sell for a substantial discount. Typically a minimum of 1/3 of its grade value but depending on how damaged or how bad the coin looks, the discount is even more. This coin doesn't look "terrible", but it does look cleaned. Having sold many impaired coins on eBay, I go by "three" when pricing them for sale. What I mean by this is the coin drops basically three grade levels. "AU 58 details" would sell for XF pricing. "AU 50 details" would sell for VF-F pricing. Coins that look damaged or have obvious damage will typically sell for less than that. XF details in terrible shape might only sell for G level pricing on significantly impaired specimens.

You can try to explain this to the shop owner, but you might not get anywhere. He might not budge. Good luck!

[Mike Meenderink]

I disagree with the others on this coin. There is no evidence of whizzing or being harshly cleaned. There are no striations or marks from tooling or mechanical cleaning. This coin has been dipped. The coin is photo grade IMO of MS62. Others will not agree. I see a low MS coin that was dipped. This is a decently nice coin. Is it worth $600? Probably not but it does have a good value. You can take a chance or buy one already graded around the same cost. Goodluck

[Sandon]

On 2/9/2024 at 9:36 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

There is no evidence of whizzing or being harshly cleaned. There are no striations or marks from tooling or mechanical cleaning.

   I respectfully disagree. Whether or not the coin has been "dipped" (excessively), the photos where the coins are slanted in the light show an unnatural sheen that is indicative of a vigorous abrasive cleaning and possibly the coin having been "whizzed". This sheen results from numerous fine scratches having been created by the brush or other abrasive surface with which the coin was scrubbed or "whizzed".  You can also see the sheen being less or absent in the protected areas such as around the eagle's neck and head and around the date, where the abrasive surface was less likely to penetrate.  Although there are always limitations to what we can see in photos, I expect that an in-hand examination of this coin would confirm the conclusion reached by the other members who have replied to this topic.

[Coinbuf]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:56 AM, Sandon said:

   I respectfully disagree. Whether or not the coin has been "dipped" (excessively), the photos where the coins are slanted in the light show an unnatural sheen that is indicative of a vigorous abrasive cleaning and possibly the coin having been "whizzed". This sheen results from numerous fine scratches having been created by the brush or other abrasive surface with which the coin was scrubbed or "whizzed".  You can also see the sheen being less or absent in the protected areas such as around the eagle's neck and head and around the date, where the abrasive surface was less likely to penetrate.  Although there are always limitations to what we can see in photos, I expect that an in-hand examination of this coin would confirm the conclusion reached by the other members who have replied to this topic.

Indeed, the lack of any discernable luster and those halo areas especially noticeable around the eagle are clear signs that the surfaces have been totally messed with.  @Epic Waffle this is the kind of coin you would lose a lot of money on if you paid the asking price, and the type of coin to avoid.

[Epic Waffle]

Thank you everyone for your insights! Glad I didn’t do the impulsive thing and buy it before asking.