New Addition 1834 H10C need help with identifying die variety 0

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

Recently added a 1834 H10C. It's the only half dime I have collected so far. Trying to figure out what die variety it is?

I know it's a 3/Inverted 3. Wasn't sure if it was a possible LM-1, FS-301 or a LM-3, FS-301

I don't understand the differences. I was thinking it was a LM-3, FS-301 from looking at other examples.

What would you grade this coin? I know some people would really dislike this toning but it doesn't bother me. Anything else welcome.

Edited January 31 by NeverEnoughCoins09
added

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

Even if it's not I would still like to know the difference between the LM-1, FS-301 and LM-3, FS-301 die varieties I couldn't find much info on them..

[Sandon]

   The "LM" numbering system for Capped Bust half dimes comes from the book Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837 by Russell Logan and John McCloskey, published in 1998. The book likely contains written descriptions of the diagnostics for the different varieties, as well as enlarged photos of them. Unfortunately, a copy of this book may be hard to find. However, you can find photos and sometimes brief descriptions of most, if not all, of the varieties of these coins on NGC VarietyPlus and/or PCGS Coinfacts.

   The dies for U.S. coins before about 1837 were made from separate punches for the devices, letters, numbers, and stars, so each die usually has some element in a different position than others. To attribute a die variety on such a coin, you must take note of the distinctive differences that distinguish one variety from another and match your coin to the correct variety.

   In this case, you have already identified the obverse die of your 1834 half dime as the "3 over inverted 3" variety found on both LM-1 and LM-3. Therefore, you just have to identify the reverse die from which your coin was struck.  By looking at the photos on VarietyPlus, I have identified your coin as an LM-1. See Early Half Dimes (1792-1837) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com) (page 2) and click each variety to see the photos, which can then be clicked to enlarge.  On the LM-1, the last "A" in "AMERICA" is separate from the top arrow as on your coin, while on the LM-3 that "A" touches the top arrow. Additionally, on the LM-1, as on your coin, the top right serif of the "C" in "5C." touches the end of the olive branch, while on the LM-3 the serif doesn't quite touch the branch. If you study the photos, you will likely find other characteristics that can serve as diagnostics for the two varieties.

Edited January 31 by Sandon

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

@Sandon  thank you very much! That was very helpful . I will take your word for it!

Still going to look to study the differences. In addition to using what you told me to differentiate varieties in the future.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:01 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

What would you grade this coin? I know some people would really dislike this toning but it doesn't bother me. Anything else welcome.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of wear, but darker colored toning aside I'm just curious why you would want to add such an impaired coin to your collection with so much visible verdigris and staining?

[zadok]

On 1/31/2024 at 2:05 PM, EagleRJO said:

There doesn't seem to be a lot of wear, but darker colored toning aside I'm just curious why you would want to add such an impaired coin to your collection with so much visible verdigris and staining?

...i would not consider this coin impaired, there is minimal if any verdigris n questionable if there is staining versus toning, whether it has been cleaned n re-toned is the question n not determinable from photographs/lighting...the coin if straight grades, XF45 n possibly AU50 unless determined to have been cleaned...50/50 on that, the toning pattern a bit iffy....

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 1/31/2024 at 1:05 PM, EagleRJO said:

There doesn't seem to be a lot of wear, but darker colored toning aside I'm just curious why you would want to add such an impaired coin to your collection with so much visible verdigris and staining?

I could be ignorant about toning. The verdigris toning on silver doesn't bother me I kind of liked it actually along with some of the other toning on this one piece.

I have seen other coins that I disliked with the same greenish blue coloring. I don't have this on hand yet hopefully it's not too dark in hand...

Some of the staining spots do bother me though and makes the coin unattractive. I wont be fixated on it though.

I would honestly prefer a brilliant or lustrous coin but that was out of my budget. I have older coins in the same or lower grades that are clean with no toning but they are dull.

I got this one at an ok price and liked the variety and overlooked some things kind of an impulse buy and took a chance. Hopefully I don't have a change of heart and come to dislike the toning once in hand..

[EagleRJO]

Just not not my taste I guess as that stained blotchy appearance really isn't for me.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 1/31/2024 at 1:59 PM, zadok said:

...i would not consider this coin impaired, there is minimal if any verdigris n questionable if there is staining versus toning, whether it has been cleaned n re-toned is the question n not determinable from photographs/lighting...the coin if straight grades, XF45 n possibly AU50 unless determined to have been cleaned...50/50 on that, the toning pattern a bit iffy....

It straight graded XF45 and I liked the details and variety compared to other XF45 I was looking at. So I overlooked the toning. Hopefully I like it in hand, I would prefer a brilliant or lustrous coin though honestly. Only wanted one example of a half dime.

It was within my budget. I am waiting to find a nice 1943/2 DDO FS or no FS or a 1943/2 FS Jefferson Nickel the last one I saw I didn't jump on it when I should have sadly..one of my biggest regrets not buying..still kicking myself 

What do you focus on @zadok?

I'm pretty sure good ol @EagleRJOlikes his Morgans from what I recall. Anything else your fond of?

I appreciate everyones replies 

 

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

 

On 1/31/2024 at 2:10 PM, EagleRJO said:

Just not not my taste I guess as that stained blotchy appearance really isn't for me.

That's completely understandable and valid. I get where your coming from. I agree it's not the most pleasant.

Most of my other coins that do have toning are not like this one..definitely a first.

I have seen worse that people snag up or pay too much for though 

I like toned coins like this but I'm not forking out $200+

Edited January 31 by NeverEnoughCoins09
added

[EagleRJO]

On 1/31/2024 at 3:23 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

I'm pretty sure good ol @EagleRJOlikes his Morgans from what I recall. Anything else your fond of?

I do collect Morgans and chopmarked Trade Dollars, in addition to older half dollars as well as some gold coins and modern dollar coins, and prefer more of the bright or natural grey color for the silver coins.  Maybe a slightly duller grey color for older circulated coins something like the attached from my collection, but that is about the extent of any "toned" coins.  I don't really go for either the darker toned coins or even the rainbow colored ones some go gaga over.  Probably why this coin wouldn't really be one for me.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 1/31/2024 at 3:38 PM, EagleRJO said:

I do collect Morgans and chopmarked Trade Dollars, in addition to older half dollars as well as some gold coins and modern dollar coins

Just curious why the chopmarked Trade Dollars versus non chop marked examples?

Is it a price thing or something else? I'm genuinely curious because I want to add a Trade Dollar cool coins 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/31/2024 at 4:41 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Just curious why the chopmarked Trade Dollars versus non chop marked examples?

Trade Dollars were intended to be used in Asia for trading, and thus the name.  So to me the chop marks give it history and pretty much confirm that's what it was being used for.

I can look at a chopmarked Trade Dollar and imagine either a dark dingy room at an Asian port with a trader sitting at an old wood table punching his mark on the coin or someone leaning up against a ship in an Asian port flipping one of these up in the air while waiting for his ship to be loaded.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 1/31/2024 at 3:58 PM, EagleRJO said:

Trade Dollars were intended to be used in Asia for trading, and thus the name.  So to me the chop marks give it history and pretty much confirm that's what it was being used for.

I can look at a chopmarked Trade Dollar and imagine either a dark dingy room at an Asian port with a trader sitting at an old wood table punching his mark on the coin or someone leaning up against a ship in an Asian port flipping one of these up in the air while waiting for his ship to be loaded.

That makes a lot of sense! Cool way to look at it. I personally want one not chop marked first. I might just want one of each now 

[EagleRJO]

Just keep in mind that while PCG$ will straight grade chopmarked Trade Dollars, NGC and many collectors consider chopmarked coins damaged.  I have also encountered quite a lot of counterfeit Trade Dollars, even chopmarked ones, so you have to be very careful with acquiring those coins. 

[powermad5000]

On 1/31/2024 at 3:41 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

I'm genuinely curious because I want to add a Trade Dollar cool coins

 

On 1/31/2024 at 4:13 PM, EagleRJO said:

I have also encountered quite a lot of counterfeit Trade Dollars, even chopmarked ones, so you have to be very careful with acquiring those coins.

Please listen to this advice given by Eagle @NeverEnoughCoins09. I collect Trade Dollars. I have seen many counterfeited and they have been counterfeited for almost since they were struck. There are some recent counterfeits which could fool even experienced collectors of this series. Below I am including a link to an NGC article on this topic. There are also other articles to read if you type "trade dollar counterfeit" in the search box.

That said, if you don't know enough to avoid the counterfeits, I would buy them already slabbed and certified. I only buy mine raw from very highly reputable major sellers with a guarantee of them being genuine and even still I inspect them to make sure those sellers didn't miss something. You can still find the more common date/mintmarks in acceptable condition for $200 or sometimes less with chopmarked ones in XF and below grades can even be gotten for less than $200. I only try to collect them in Uncirculated condition and none of them in UNC are cheap. Also note, a majority of these have been previously cleaned.

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/2135/Counterfeit-Detection--1875-S-Trade-Dollar/

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 1/31/2024 at 6:31 PM, powermad5000 said:

 

Please listen to this advice given by Eagle @NeverEnoughCoins09.  You can still find the more common date/mintmarks in acceptable condition for $200 or sometimes less with chopmarked ones in XF and below grades can even be gotten for less than $200. I only try to collect them in Uncirculated condition and none of them in UNC are cheap. Also note, a majority of these have been previously cleaned.

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/2135/Counterfeit-Detection--1875-S-Trade-Dollar/

That would be nice I never see them in a decent price range..that's one of the reasons I don't already have one I will have to keep a look out again.

I usually always try to only buy already slabbed. I luckily only made like two bad buys raw I learned my lesson fast lol.

I can't find anyone locally yet that I honestly trust or can get good buys from.

That's why I was asking about some shows in St. Louis coming in February. Maybe I can make some connections there.

Thanks again @powermad5000

[EagleRJO]

On 1/31/2024 at 7:41 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

I can't find anyone locally yet that I honestly trust or can get good buys from ... That's why I was asking about some shows in St. Louis coming in February. Maybe I can make some connections there.

Have you tried searching the dealer listings available thru the TPG's websites?

On 1/31/2024 at 12:57 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Still going to look to study the differences. In addition to using what you told me to differentiate varieties in the future.

Also, if you are having trouble following Sandon's descriptions or noting differences between the NGC VP images you can find annotated half dime die variety images that can be helpful in pinpointing specific ones, like the attached for an LM-1 and LM-3 which you narrowed it down to.  I agree with Sandon your coin looks like an LM-1.

[J P M]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:01 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Recently added a 1834 H10C. It's the only half dime I have collected so far. Trying to figure out what die variety it is?

I know it's a 3/Inverted 3. Wasn't sure if it was a possible LM-1, FS-301 or a LM-3, FS-301

I don't understand the differences. I was thinking it was a LM-3, FS-301 from looking at other examples.

What would you grade this coin? I know some people would really dislike this toning but it doesn't bother me. Anything else welcome.

The coin is in very good shape, there may be some wear under the toning, but it is what it is.