Kingfamily714 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I have a few proof coins that I would like to submit for grading but my v75 ASE has what appears to be a suction cup smudge in the field on the reverse. I purchased the coin from the Mint so I am certain it came from the manufacturing/packaging process. Has anyone else seen these in the past? If so, does anyone have an idea of how these affect the final grade? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Welcome to the forum We will need a clear photo of both sides in order to help you otherwise we would just be guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) On 1/26/2024 at 11:10 AM, Kingfamily714 said: I have a few proof coins that I would like to submit for grading but my v75 ASE has what appears to be a suction cup smudge in the field on the reverse. I purchased the coin from the Mint so I am certain it came from the manufacturing/packaging process. Has anyone else seen these in the past? If so, does anyone have an idea of how these affect the final grade? Thanks in advance! Welcome to the forum, I am not aware of the US mint using suction cups in the manufacturing process, so whatever you are seeing is going to be considered as damage and will lower the grade commensurate with the amount of damage including a possible details grade. A photo of your coin would help in answering your question. Edited January 27 by Coinbuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Hello and welcome! I cannot provide any opinion on your subject without clear, cropped photos of both sides of the coin in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 powermad5000 and JT2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) The first part is a lot like how the old manual coin counters worked - matched stack height against slot width. (The video is from the West Point Mint site.) Edited January 27 by RWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfamily714 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 Here is a photo of the coin in question. Misspoke with stating the reverse; it is the obverse. You can see it between the I B E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/27/2024 at 11:00 PM, Kingfamily714 said: Here is a photo of the coin in question. Misspoke with stating the reverse; it is the obverse. You can see it between the I B E. Are you sure the mark is on the coin and not on the capsule? And if on the coin why not simply return it for an exchange? Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 We have seen numerous coins in capsules like this that turn out to be lighting reflection, or a scuff on the holder. Proof surfaces can really trick your eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Thank you for providing the photo here. While a video has been posted here of what appears to be bullion ASE's getting packaged into tubes and what I think are green monster boxes, I would be curious to know if proofs get the same type of handling, and I would like to say not, especially after watching the coins slide down out of the tray and clink into each other. I would think this action would instantly negate any possible chance of a proof coin achieving a PF 70 UC grade of which we know there are many that get graded at that level on such modern issues. I would carefully check this coin again and see if the capsule is scratched and is showing on the nice mirror field underneath. I just had a Morgan I won at auction arrive and upon inspection, I was nearly set to return it, but further inspection revealed what I thought to be hairlines on the coin were actually marks on the clear flip. If that is not the case, I will state that there have been several complaints that have come across the forums here in recent years about the quality coming out of the mint being substandard. I personally don't buy any of the modern mint products but there are others on here who will gladly call the mint out regarding recent quality issues. If it were to be that this coin was capsuled with a defect (which is inherently possible), then you might want to consider selling this specimen for one with no visible defects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfamily714 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 On 1/27/2024 at 9:26 PM, EagleRJO said: Are you sure the mark is on the coin and not on the capsule? And if on the coin why not simply return it for an exchange? In order to take the picture, I carefully removed half of the capsule to better photograph the defect. The defect is also visible with a loupe and coin in hand. also, because the coin is the 2020 V75 Proof ASE, there is no exchanging. It was hard enough to get one on the day it went on sale as I am sure others could attest to on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 That is a shame, I do not think there is much you can do for it. I have a set of ASE's and a few I had to rinse off with hot water to remove dust particles before putting them in airtight holders and it worked fine. It may work on your coin as a last resort, but I would not want to chance water spots on a proof coin. I would just live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Too bad you can't return iy. It would never get a top grade wih that mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) On 1/28/2024 at 1:05 AM, powermad5000 said: I would be curious to know if proofs get the same type of handling Yep, maybe not in all circumstances depending on the type of packaging and capabilities of the mint they were produced at but from what I've seen the proofs get placed into the same or similar grey tray then the tray goes onto a cart and rolled over to the packaging line where the process is automated. I'm not saying that what appears to be a mark on the OP's coin was absolutely caused by a suction cup used during packaging, but it's possible. I wouldn't think that the cup would be rigid enough to displace metal but it might leave a smudge or deposit some debris, something along those lines. Below is a video of proof sets being packaged in San Fran. Edited January 28 by Fenntucky Mike powermad5000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 The mark is not from a suction cup. Consider other scenarios that could have caused the malady. Accidents routinely happen on assembly lines, but to small enough extents that the processes are deemed profitable. Your coin "slipped" through quality control, you bought it, but then it was up to you to be the final arbiter of its acceptability… and in a timely manner. Live and learn. P.S. Good thread. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“” Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/28/2024 at 11:26 AM, USAuPzlBxBob said: The mark is not from a suction cup. Consider other scenarios that could have caused the malady. Accidents routinely happen on assembly lines, but to small enough extents that the processes are deemed profitable. Your coin "slipped" through quality control, you bought it, but then it was up to you to be the final arbiter of its acceptability… and in a timely manner. Live and learn. P.S. Good thread. Thank you. He said it could not be returned which is disappointing to say the least. i prefer purchasing these types of issues already slabbed by a TPG so these types of issues are more easily avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 I have seen many modern U.S. proof coins with small areas of haze like this. It is not really an impairment but might lower the grading service grade of the coin to "69" from the possible "70" marketing gimmick grade. So many of this issue have been submitted to grading services that the pieces kept in their original capsules with the mint boxes and certificates may be worth more someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/28/2024 at 10:26 AM, USAuPzlBxBob said: P.S. Good thread. Thank you. I feel the same. I've found this to be quite an interesting discussion and like the additional video inserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 On 1/28/2024 at 2:20 AM, Kingfamily714 said: In order to take the picture, I carefully removed half of the capsule to better photograph the defect. The defect is also visible with a loupe and coin in hand. also, because the coin is the 2020 V75 Proof ASE, there is no exchanging. It was hard enough to get one on the day it went on sale as I am sure others could attest to on these boards. That is too bad it's actually on the coin as I have been faked out by stuff on the capsule and was hoping that was it. It doesn't look like something soaking it in acetone might help, but you never know and that won't hurt the coin. I guess you just live with it, or return it and put that towards a new one at a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfamily714 Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 Thank you all for your responses and the education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
