ArryJ Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) Hi I have a question 1989 PF70 sovereign that has an extra blob on the base of the queens left base. can anyone tell me if this is a mint error or does it have a different technical description? Thanks. Edited January 11 by ArryJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Welcome to the forum, your photo is slightly out of focus and I cannot tell what you are looking at. Perhaps someone else can. ArryJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 (edited) Apologies for the photo clarity, it’s the small blob above the D. Edited January 11 by ArryJ Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 To my eye it looks like a small piece of lint that could have landed on the coin during the encapsulation of the coin, that has happened before. Are you sure it is metal and is on the coin inside the plastic? I ask because I have seen a few instances where someone had something on the outside of the plastic but mistook it for being on the coin, those proof surfaces can sometimes cast shadows and trick the eye. ArryJ and JT2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 Hi no it’s 100% on the coin I’ve looked at it through a magnifying glass. Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) Hi as Coinbuf stated it is hard to see detail, but I do see the small blob. Now... to be considered a mint error the coin must be expertly attributed. If the error is of a type that is attributed or recognized, then it would be labeled as such if graded. Recognized mint errors are things like strike throughs, broad strikes, cuds, die clashes, planchet errors, etc. Your coin may have a small strike through or die chip that created that mark. I cannot be sure since I can't see it close enough to be sure. Having this mark is not advantageous for the coin. Even if an error or quality control issue it is an unremarkable and unsightly error. IMO this mark is a strike against the coins eye appeal. IMO and many other serious collectors a mark like this makes the coin less valuable. IMO your coin has been over graded, and that mark definitely puts it in PF69 UCAM - CAM. If there are any other marks on the coin the grade would be lowered for that as well. I would not focus on this as a positive attribute of this coin. Cheers and good luck. Edited January 11 by Mike Meenderink ArryJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Surprised it got a 70, who was the grader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 There’s no more marks on the coin, it’s an NGC graded coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) On 1/11/2024 at 1:43 PM, ArryJ said: There’s no more marks on the coin, it’s an NGC graded coin. Its over graded. You can send it back for regrade tier and mint error tier. Then you will have a properly graded coin which reflects the mark or a properly graded coin which reflects the possible error. Doing this will properly identify and value the coin for future sale or trade. I know it sounds crazy to send it back for a lower grade but it's what the coin would want you to do they are at their best when they get their entire proper personality described good or bad. Cheers.. Edited January 11 by Mike Meenderink ArryJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 Hi, Thanks all for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I know nothing about this coin, so I can't help you on the error. However...I absolutely would NOT send this coin back for grading to receive a lower grade, and I don't care what my coin "wants". You will be taking an instant monetary loss on the coin doing that. Grading is an opinion, and that grader's opinion was PH70. Your prospective buyer may or may not have a difference of opinion. Give yourself the room to negotiate, and perhaps someone will buy the holder. A 70 at 68-69 money will sell much quicker than a 68-69 at 68-69 money. ArryJ and NeverEnoughCoins09 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 Thanks, I’ll definitely bear that in mind. I’ll do some more research on the subject. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 If the small dot in the field is raised and part of the coin metal, it is likely the result of a die chip, which on U.S. coins is generally considered to be a quality control issue, not a mint error, and does not make the coin more valuable. "NGC does not recognize as mint error coins those with minor die chips, breaks and rotations, etc., that fall within our interpretation of mint tolerance." Variety vs. Mint Error | NGC (ngccoin.com) However, the photos are too small to tell for sure what it is, and I do not know whether there would be any market for such an anomaly on a coin of the United Kingdom Mike Meenderink and NeverEnoughCoins09 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) I've seen this type of visual variance in the fields of modern gold coins many times, it is not considered an error nor will it preclude a coin from grading 70 and in some series it's difficult to find a coin that does not exhibit spots such as these. I don't know the cause but would guess that it is due to some sort of sloppy die or flan prep, maybe the alloy itself? If the spot is raised then it could be a die chip as @Sandon stated, that there is seemingly only one spot makes the die chip explanation more likely but the look of it makes me think otherwise, hard to say without seeing the coin in hand. The weather is supposed to turn to 💩 this afternoon and through the weekend, could be an interesting research project to pass the time. I'll pass on any info I stumble across if I dive further into this. Bottom line is that if you find it unattractive then either live with it or move on, imo the coin is not over graded based on current market standards but many will find a spot such as that unattractive and not pay top dollar for the coin. Below is a coin from my collection that displays this type of "flecking", it is difficult to find a coin of this type without this, but the overall dispersal gives the fields a night sky type effect and adds depth, which is not unpleasing to me, others will undoubtedly disagree but to each their own. Edited January 12 by Fenntucky Mike Spelling The Neophyte Numismatist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 Turns out I was wrong, it was dust on the coin 😂😮💨… Thanks all for your input. NeverEnoughCoins09 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) On 1/15/2024 at 3:15 AM, ArryJ said: Turns out I was wrong, it was dust on the coin 😂😮💨… Thanks all for your input. “Dust on the coin… All it was is dust on the coin.” Edited January 15 by VKurtB ArryJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/15/2024 at 3:15 AM, ArryJ said: it was dust on the coin Ah, the mortal enemy of coin photos! ArryJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/15/2024 at 4:15 AM, ArryJ said: Turns out I was wrong, it was dust on the coin Looks like Coinbuf had it nailed from the beginning. How did you discover this? ArryJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/15/2024 at 12:14 PM, VKurtB said: “Dust on the coin… All it was is dust on the coin.” You're my boy Blue! NeverEnoughCoins09 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 On 1/15/2024 at 10:24 PM, EagleRJO said: Looks like Coinbuf had it nailed from the beginning. How did you discover this? With a Jewellers Loupe and a lot of squinting 😮💨😅… My question now is how do I get NGC to remove it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/16/2024 at 3:09 PM, ArryJ said: With a Jewellers Loupe and a lot of squinting 😮💨😅… My question now is how do I get NGC to remove it? I'm not convinced it is dust but if you want to have it looked at you'll have to pay for NCS to do so and then I believe you'll have to pay to have it regraded if NCS does conserve the coin. It might be worth contacting NCS/NGC to see if there is some sort of free service or warranty if it's determined that there is a foreign object in the capsule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArryJ Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 Under magnification it reflects off the coin, and I can see it sits atop of the surface. Thanks I’ll contact them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 If I am not mistaken, the slabs are sealed in a vacuum environment, so foreign material inside the slab should be a mistake on their end and should be rectified at no cost to the submitter. I would start with NGC customer service first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 1/16/2024 at 11:46 PM, powermad5000 said: If I am not mistaken, the slabs are sealed in a vacuum environment, so foreign material inside the slab should be a mistake on their end and should be rectified at no cost to the submitter. I would start with NGC customer service first. You are mistaken. Coins are slabbed at one atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 From the NGC FAQ section : The NGC holder is sealed using ultrasonic welding — a safe, clean and secure process — that helps to protect the coins and reveal attempts at tampering. This process is not designed to create an airtight or watertight seal. I stand corrected @VKurtB. My apologies to the OP if my response created any confusion. But, if a foreign substance is inside the holder, I would inquire of NGC customer service as to how to rectify the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
