Lincoln cent Split Planchet? 1 1

[Endling_King]

I am planning on submitting this Lincoln wheat cent for grading, however I thought I would post it here and get some insight on whether it is in fact a split planchet or just pmd (post mint damage). I found it while roll hunting several months ago and planned on submitting it but that plan got sidetracked due to family emergency. 

so what does everyone think? split planchet or PMD? 

[Sandon]

   Your coin appears to me to have been partially dissolved in acid or otherwise severely corroded rather than being a mint error. It doesn't resemble any of the pieces illustrated as examples of split planchets on error-ref.com, whether the planchet split before or after striking. See https://www.error-ref.com/?s=split+planchet.  These coins have striations on the split side only, not the uniformly grainy surface on both sides of your coin. See also the example shown at Adjustment Strikes, Struck Thrus and Other Mint Errors | NGC (ngccoin.com). 

   If you decide to proceed with submitting this coin to a third-party grading service, please inform us of the service's determination.

   

[Endling_King]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:29 PM, Sandon said:

   Your coin appears to me to have been partially dissolved in acid or otherwise severely corroded rather than being a mint error. It doesn't resemble any of the pieces illustrated as examples of split planchets on error-ref.com, whether the planchet split before or after striking. See https://www.error-ref.com/?s=split+planchet.  These coins have striations on the split side only, not the uniformly grainy surface on both sides of your coin. See also the example shown at Adjustment Strikes, Struck Thrus and Other Mint Errors | NGC (ngccoin.com). 

   If you decide to proceed with submitting this coin to a third-party grading service, please inform us of the service's determination.

   

Thank you for sharing those links and yes, it doesnt look like the examples on the link, however Im still prob going to roll the dice and see what NGC says. Im going to be sending in some other Lincoln cents in for grading anyways so why not add it to the mix. (sending in 3 cheerios cents and 1 steel cent with an error on the reverse side. 

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!
 

I am not seeing where there is a split planchet on the first cent you posted. I do, however, see a heavily corroded cent of date 19XX, and I am not 100% sure but I believe if there is not a date on a non error coin, that NGC will not grade or slab such said coin as they are not able to determine exactly what it is they are encapsulating. The following excerpt is from the NGC submission rules found on this site under the Submit tab :

On occasion, NGC will not encapsulate a coin and return it with a label that says “Not Suitable for Certification.” This notation is used for coins that are severely damaged or otherwise impaired. The surfaces of these coins are such that it is impossible for NGC to even attempt to authenticate them or assign a grade. When a coin is determined to be “Not Suitable for Certification” the grading fee will be refunded less a $5.00 processing charge.

Your cent with the advanced level of corrosion might fall under this category as the amount of metal lost in the corrosion process may not allow for its given weight to fall in spec for a LWC. I unfortunately feel this particular cent would fall in that category, and if not, it has no legible date and probably would not be graded.

Your steelie on the other hand, seems to be in uncirculated condition, with a possible lamination error on the reverse. I cannot say for sure if that is the condition present, but it does not appear that those areas on the reverse were ground or scraped out. I would be interested to know the final determination of the steel cent.

[J P M]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:39 PM, Endling_King said:

sending in 3 cheerios cents

I am wondering, how does one distinguish a 2000 cheerios sent from a regular cent? 

Edited December 14, 2023 by J P M

[Greenstang]

Quote

I am wondering, how does one distinguish a 2000 cheerios sent from a regular cent?

The only way to tell is if it is in the original packaging. Once it has been removed, it becomes a normal 2000 cent

[Mike Meenderink]

That Lincoln cent is the result of a science experiment. Acid reduced cent. No value not even worth 1c. Technically it should be sent back to the mint for replacement. 

[Endling_King]

On 12/14/2023 at 6:39 AM, J P M said:

I am wondering, how does one distinguish a 2000 cheerios sent from a regular cent? 

Cheerios did a promotion to celebrate the release of the 2000 dated Lincoln cent. you have to send it in while its still in the original cheerios package. and since its a 2000 P Lincoln cent. it could potentially have the "Wide AM" on the back. here is an article from CoinWeek.com about them " https://coinweek.com/2000-cheerios-cent-history-value-coinweek/#:~:text=2000 “Cheerios” Cents in Top,grading between 60 and 70. "

Edited December 14, 2023 by Endling_King

[Sandon]

  

On 12/14/2023 at 8:07 AM, Endling_King said:

since its a 2000 P Lincoln cent. it could potentially have the "Wide AM" on the back.

    I understand that all "Cheerios cents" are ordinary "close AM" 2000 cents. You should be able to tell which variety your examples are yourself. (I recently bought an uncertified BU 2000 "wide AM" cent at a coin show for $5.) NGC would charge an $18 "VarietyPlus" fee in addition to the $19 Modern tier grading fee per piece to attribute them as "wide AM"s. Lincoln Cents, Memorial Reverse (1959-2008) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com). 

   From my perspective, what makes "Cheerios" cents of interest is their original packaging. I don't know why anyone would want a grading service to remove them from this packaging, stripping them of their historical context. I suspect that future generations of collectors will value them more highly in that packaging than in a grading service holder in which they were placed decades later that represents they originated in such packaging.

   Your 1943-D steel cent appears to have a reverse planchet lamination, a minor mint error. I'm not sure that its surface is original, and if it has been re-plated, NGC will return it unencapsulated as having an "altered surface" while keeping your grading ($23 "Economy" tier) and $18 error attribution fee. (If the edge is shiny rather than dull, it has likely been re-plated.)  My 2023 "Redbook" (p. 443) lists a steel cent with a lamination as having a retail value of $15, so why would it be worth spending $41 plus processing and shipping costs to submit it to NGC?

   If you decide to proceed, I wish you well, but it is highly likely that only NGC will profit from your submission.

[EagleRJO]

I don't think there is any doubt that No Date LWC has been subjected to environmental damage either from an acid or burial.  I think if you weighed the coin you would see a reduction, but not significant enough for a split planchet, and the coin also doesn't have an appearance consistent with a split planchet.

I am leaning towards acid damage as I am not seeing any corrosion spots like on the attached example cent damaged from being buried.  I think @Hoghead515 may have some additional metal detector finds of some cents.  However, the coin does have an appearance consistent with acid damage.  Also, see the following Error-Ref.com webpage on acid damage. 

https://www.error-ref.com/acid-shrunkacid-shrunk

Btw, nice find with those "Cheerios" cents, and I would agree with leaving them in the original packaging as long as that remained in decent condition.  Let us know how you make out with the subnittal of that No Date LWC if you decide to proceed.

Edited December 15, 2023 by EagleRJO

[RWB]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:39 PM, Endling_King said:

Thank you for sharing those links and yes, it doesnt look like the examples on the link, however Im still prob going to roll the dice and see what NGC says. Im going to be sending in some other Lincoln cents in for grading anyways so why not add it to the mix. (sending in 3 cheerios cents and 1 steel cent with an error on the reverse side. 

Members are trying to be gentle, however, you also should hear straight information in concentrated form. Your chances of doing anything more than wasting $250 are excellent. None of the coins you mention have any significant collector value.

Here are the facts:

Acid ruined cent - Value = 0

Cheerios cents -- Value = 15 cents total

1943 cent, minor delamination or crack -- $3

Total value $3.15. Total cost of service, about $250.

Instead, why not take the wife to a really nice restaurant for dinner, wine and conversation about things she enjoys. You will earn lots of "points" and put your $250 to a meaningful purpose.

Edited December 14, 2023 by RWB

[Endling_King]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:03 PM, RWB said:

Members are trying to be gentle, however, you also should hear straight information in concentrated form. Your chances of doing anything more than wasting $250 are excellent. None of the coins you mention have any significant collector value.

Here are the facts:

Acid ruined cent - Value = 0

Cheerios cents -- Value = 15 cents total

1943 cent, minor delamination or crack -- $3

Total value $3.15. Total cost of service, about $250.

Instead, why not take the wife to a really nice restaurant for dinner, wine and conversation about things she enjoys. You will earn lots of "points" and put your $250 to a meaningful purpose.

I appreciate the bluntness. and you have a valid point that it would be better financially for me to save the money I would spend on getting them graded. I am well aware none of the coins I posted are going to be major finds (or even minor ones). And honestly the only 2 coins I have submitted in the past that were maybe actually worth getting graded was the 2014 W gold Kennedy half dollar (worth according to NGC about $2,550) or my 2001 W $5 CAPITOL VISITOR CENTER gold coin worth according to NGC only about $425. and even then, I've had people tell me that neither of those coins are worth getting graded.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Endling_King

[JKK]

On 12/14/2023 at 12:26 PM, Endling_King said:

I appreciate the bluntness. and you have a valid point that it would be better financially for me to save the money I would spend on getting them graded. I am well aware none of the coins I posted are going to be major finds (or even minor ones). And honestly the only 2 coins I have submitted in the past that were maybe actually worth getting graded was the 2014 W gold Kennedy half dollar (worth according to NGC about $2,550) or my 2001 W $5 CAPITOL VISITOR CENTER gold coin worth according to NGC only about $425. and even then, I've had people tell me that neither of those coins are worth getting graded.

 

Here's the best argument I can make to help prevent you from wasting your money. Suppose you spend $250 for plastic and to have it confirmed that the coins are no big deal (overwhelming likelihood). How much coin could you have bought for $250? For that I can get two Roman Republic denarii in nice condition and have money to spare for a decent bronze. I could also get a very respectable bustie (early 1800s capped bust half). I could just about get a lower-grade 1914-D cent. How much for gold $1 coins these days? Pretty sure one is within that financial reach.

Or I could have plastic that tells me my coins are of minimal value.

If that doesn't move you, you're dead set on it, and I can do nothing but watch helplessly.

[Endling_King]

On 12/14/2023 at 7:06 PM, JKK said:

Here's the best argument I can make to help prevent you from wasting your money. Suppose you spend $250 for plastic and to have it confirmed that the coins are no big deal (overwhelming likelihood). How much coin could you have bought for $250? For that I can get two Roman Republic denarii in nice condition and have money to spare for a decent bronze. I could also get a very respectable bustie (early 1800s capped bust half). I could just about get a lower-grade 1914-D cent. How much for gold $1 coins these days? Pretty sure one is within that financial reach.

Or I could have plastic that tells me my coins are of minimal value.

If that doesn't move you, you're dead set on it, and I can do nothing but watch helplessly.

I appreciate that. I will most likely hold off on sending them in. I've been meaning to buy more gold coins so I may put that money towards that. OR I've been wanting to get my hands on a 1861-O 50C W-15, SS Republic, Confederate States Issue -- Shipwreck Effect coin. may save up to finally get one! 

[EagleRJO]

Now your thinking about better ways to waste your money. 

Kidding aside, if you are looking for a shipwreck coin I would keep my eyes out for one that has very minimal effect from being in a wreck.  Then you can still enjoy the look of the coin but you have the pedigree associated with owning a coin that came from a shipwreck.

I have two shipwreck coins just because I like the idea of having some reasonably priced coins that actually came from a wreck.  One was barely affected and the other is more like the one you posted.  I am thinking about selling the one more affected because it just doesn't look that great.

[powermad5000]

The 2000 Cheerios cents you are considering submitting would need to grade out at either MS 67 or MS 68 for them to be worth the cost of submission. Currently in the price guide, MS 67 is listed as $450 and MS 68 is listed as $1,100. The problem submitting these cents is that you cannot see the reverse. With the first 10,000,000 ejected from the press without special handling other than to put them into the Cheerios packaging, one ding on the reverse will negate the value making it not worth the cost of TPG grading. It's basically a you-know-what shoot because you absolutely MUST submit the cent IN the original Cheerios package for it to be attributed, therefore making it impossible to know what condition the reverse is in. I took a gamble buying one off of eBay for $10 with a great looking obverse that had no apparent scratches or hits, and lucked out getting back a 67.

As for the shipwreck coin, I would take the advice from @EagleRJO and find one of better quality. The following is an excerpt from the NGC article on how they grade shipwreck coins : 

 

The Shipwreck Effect Grading Scale includes six grade categories that range from minimal surface disturbance and superior eye appeal on the high end to severe disturbance and metal loss affecting the design on the low end. Coins showing minimal surface disturbance from saltwater exposure and having superior eye appeal are typically graded NGC Shipwreck Effect A, which is the highest designation, followed by Shipwreck Effect B, C, D, E and Shipwreck Effect.

NGC also provides a wear or detail grade to Shipwreck Effect coins that ranges from Uncirculated to Good. When the origin of the shipwreck coin is documented and confirmed, the NGC certification process also provided a Genuine designation.

 

I would try to find the coin you are looking for graded as Shipwreck Effect A, or possibly Shipwreck Effect B, but anything lower than that, and it probably won't have a great surface after the saltwater damage. I own one of these coins from the SS Republic, but I was unaware of the grading scale they use so I got one that is lowest on the scale, yet it doesn't look terrible, so I am ok with it.

None of us here can tell you what to collect or how to collect or even not to submit should you so wish, but we do try to use our experiences and knowledge of coins and submitting as well to try to help newer collectors not make the mistakes we probably did.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by powermad5000

[Endling_King]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:19 PM, EagleRJO said:

Now your thinking about better ways to waste your money. 

Kidding aside, if you are looking for a shipwreck coin I would keep my eyes out for one that has very minimal effect from being in a wreck.  Then you can still enjoy the look of the coin but you have the pedigree associated with owning a coin that came from a shipwreck.

I have two shipwreck coins just because I like the idea of having some reasonably priced coins that actually came from a wreck.  One was barely affected and the other is more like the one you posted.  I am thinking about selling the one more affected because it just doesn't look that great.

 

On 12/15/2023 at 2:06 AM, powermad5000 said:

The 2000 Cheerios cents you are considering submitting would need to grade out at either MS 67 or MS 68 for them to be worth the cost of submission. Currently in the price guide, MS 67 is listed as $450 and MS 68 is listed as $1,100. The problem submitting these cents is that you cannot see the reverse. With the first 10,000,000 ejected from the press without special handling other than to put them into the Cheerios packaging, one ding on the reverse will negate the value making it not worth the cost of TPG grading. It's basically a you-know-what shoot because you absolutely MUST submit the cent IN the original Cheerios package for it to be attributed, therefore making it impossible to know what condition the reverse is in. I took a gamble buying one off of eBay for $10 with a great looking obverse that had no apparent scratches or hits, and lucked out getting back a 67.

As for the shipwreck coin, I would take the advice from @EagleRJO and find one of better quality. The following is an excerpt from the NGC article on how they grade shipwreck coins : 

 

The Shipwreck Effect Grading Scale includes six grade categories that range from minimal surface disturbance and superior eye appeal on the high end to severe disturbance and metal loss affecting the design on the low end. Coins showing minimal surface disturbance from saltwater exposure and having superior eye appeal are typically graded NGC Shipwreck Effect A, which is the highest designation, followed by Shipwreck Effect B, C, D, E and Shipwreck Effect.

NGC also provides a wear or detail grade to Shipwreck Effect coins that ranges from Uncirculated to Good. When the origin of the shipwreck coin is documented and confirmed, the NGC certification process also provided a Genuine designation.

 

I would try to find the coin you are looking for graded as Shipwreck Effect A, or possibly Shipwreck Effect B, but anything lower than that, and it probably won't have a great surface after the saltwater damage. I own one of these coins from the SS Republic, but I was unaware of the grading scale they use so I got one that is lowest on the scale, yet it doesn't look terrible, so I am ok with it.

None of us here can tell you what to collect or how to collect or even not to submit should you so wish, but we do try to use our experiences and knowledge of coins and submitting as well to try to help newer collectors not make the mistakes we probably did.

 

 

Thank you, I wasnt aware of the grading scale for shipwreck effect. that coin I posted was just for an example of the coin I was talking about. not the actual coin I was looking to buy. there is currently one up for sale on one of the facebook pages I am a member of with a shipwreck grade of AU that I am considering. I've always wanted a shipwreck coin as well as anything confederate (its strictly a personal history thing. I attended a school with the mascot was the "Rebel", and when I got into coin and currency collecting I found confederate currency interesting but never seemed to find anything that snagged my interest enough to buy.) 

here is the coin that is currently up for sale on the facebook group I am in, 

[powermad5000]

That's kind of like the one I own. Mine is uncirculated but the surfaces are kind of like that.

If you like the coin, and the price is reasonable for the grade and shipwreck provenance, that one is not too bad. It all depends if you like the coin, because many of us on here have owned a coin or two at some point in their collecting that they may not have been exactly happy with but bought it anyway and typically those ended up getting sold off. I know I have sold quite a few coins I was not exactly happy with, especially after coming back graded.