Nickel grades 1 1

[Halbrook Family]

Not that I am sending in any coins for grading but can you get a very high grade on a nickel without steps? Can you get the highest grade without steps? 

[J P M]

On 11/25/2023 at 8:42 AM, edhalbrook said:

Not that I am sending in any coins for grading but can you get a very high grade on a nickel without steps? Can you get the highest grade without steps? 

Yes you can get a high grade without the steps. Steps are a big bonus but not required for a MS. Now finding Nickels in high MS is a different story. LoL  

[Halbrook Family]

What's the possibility of getting full steps from the souvenir sets from 1982 and 1983?  $50 each is a high price to pay for them though. 

[J P M]

On 11/25/2023 at 9:01 AM, edhalbrook said:

What's the possibility of getting full steps from the souvenir sets from 1982 and 1983?  $50 each is a high price to pay for them though. 

 I am not familiar with those sets. Most third-party production sets do not have the best coins available.

[Halbrook Family]

No I think these were from the mint to visitors. 

[J P M]

On 11/25/2023 at 9:29 AM, edhalbrook said:

No I think these were from the mint to visitors. 

I see. Still $50 is a lot of money. Reportedly there were no mint sets sold to the public in 82 and 83 so those would have to be from the mint. I can't say what the coins would be like. Most mint sets I have found still have some unpleasant looking coins. IMO. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by J P M

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/25/2023 at 6:29 AM, edhalbrook said:

No I think these were from the mint to visitors. 

All I'd need to see is a clear pic of the reverse of the nickel and I'll tell you if it is full steps or not. It must have either 5 or 6 clearly defined individual steps above Monticello with no hits, breaks or weak areas in the steps. Then it would be either a 5FS or a 6FS.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Sandon]

   The mint sold these souvenir sets at its gift shops in 1982-83, when no uncirculated coin sets were issued. I purchased the 1983 sets for both mints at the Philadelphia mint in 1983. It's doubtful that you would find a "full steps" nickel in such sets, as they contained regular uncirculated coins. Moreover, the sets themselves are relatively scarce and now sell for a premium, and it would be a shame to destroy them by removing coins to send to grading services.

[EagleRJO]

On 11/25/2023 at 11:48 AM, Sandon said:

The mint sold these souvenir sets at its gift shops in 1982-83, when no uncirculated coin sets were issued

Curious that there were "Souvenir" mint sets, but no official "Uncirculated" mint sets in those years.  Were they both "business strike" coins (intended for circulation)?

On 11/25/2023 at 11:48 AM, Sandon said:

I purchased the 1983 sets for both mints at the Philadelphia mint in 1983

You are dating yourself again.  

[Sandon]

     @EagleRJO--As I recall, mint officials decided that sets of uncirculated coins could just as well be assembled by private businesses and discontinued the issuance of uncirculated coin a.k.a. "mint" sets in 1982. Congress responded by enacted legislation requiring the mint to issue annual proof and uncirculated coin sets, so the issuance of uncirculated sets resumed in 1984.

    The coins in the Souvenir Sets are regular circulation strike coins of similar quality to those in uncirculated coin sets of that era, including the light scrapes from the packaging equipment on the high points of some of the coins. (The coins in my sets are still brilliant, with the exception of the 1983-D cent, which was covered with plating blisters, some of which have developed into areas of corrosion.)  As shown in the OP's photos of the 1982 Philadelphia set, each set also included a good-sized bronze medal depicting the mint of issue.

   To the OP--The nickels in my 1983 Souvenir Sets, only have partial steps, so I don't think that these sets would be a likely source of "full steps" examples.

   

[powermad5000]

If I had one of those souvenir sets, I would leave those as a set in the OGP.

[Halbrook Family]

On 11/25/2023 at 6:40 AM, J P M said:

I see. Still $50 is a lot of money. Reportedly there were no mint sets sold to the public in 82 and 83 so those would have to be from the mint. I can't say what the coins would be like. Most mint sets I have found still have some unpleasant looking coins. IMO. 

Yes I go through bunches to try and find a good one when at coin store. They don't have this one however. It's really annoying when looking through uncirculated sets you find one or two coins in bad shape.Lots of times it's the penny for some reason. 

[Halbrook Family]

On 11/26/2023 at 1:03 PM, powermad5000 said:

If I had one of those souvenir sets, I would leave those as a set in the OGP.

Especially if you spent $50 on it. I'll just track down the nickels from rolls. Down to my last half a dozen for the set of 1938 to 2005 Nickels. Got one all BU though the toning pisses me off on a few and a couple books going from nickel hunting in circulated 

[Halbrook Family]

On 11/25/2023 at 5:49 PM, Sandon said:

 

   To the OP--The nickels in my 1983 Souvenir Sets, only have partial steps, so I don't think that these sets would be a likely source of "full steps" examples.

   

But you can find full steps on the roll ones right? 

[Halbrook Family]

On 11/25/2023 at 6:58 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

All I'd need to see is a clear pic of the reverse of the nickel and I'll tell you if it is full steps or not. It must have either 5 or 6 clearly defined individual steps above Monticello with no hits, breaks or weak areas in the steps. Then it would be either a 5FS or a 6FS.

How high can a nickel be graded of it didn't have all the steps? Just wondering. There isn't really any nickels worth paying that kind of money to get graded. The regular set coins. 

[Halbrook Family]

Is the for example the 2003 s nickel in a proof set the same as  2003 s nickel in a silver proof set? 

[Sandon]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:29 PM, edhalbrook said:

But you can find full steps on the roll ones right? 

   Theoretically, yes, but based on the NGC Census and the PCGS Population Report, relatively few pieces of these dates that have been submitted qualified for an "FS" designation. See Jefferson Five Cents (1938-Date) | Coin Census Population Report | NGC (ngccoin.com),  https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/84?l=jefferson-nickel-1938-date&ccid=0&t=3&p=MS&pn=3.  You would have to find uncirculated rolls of these dates that hadn't already been picked through, probably no easy task forty years after the coins were issued!  Most collectors who are interested in such so-called "strike rarities" buy them already third-party graded for premium prices. If you are just collecting Jefferson nickels in an album, I would just buy the best uncertified coins you can find for the date for reasonable prices at coin shows. (A dealer's "full steps" designation might not be agreed with by all collectors or by a grading service.)   

   I saved some BU 1982 and 1983 (mostly "P") uncirculated nickels I received in change or from banks around the time of issue, but I don't recall any of them that would qualify for a "full steps" designation.

On 11/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, edhalbrook said:

How high can a nickel be graded of it didn't have all the steps?

    There is no limit. NGC has graded Jefferson nickels without a "FS" designation as high as "MS 68", PCGS as high as MS 67. See the same pages I previously linked. (PCGS is apparently stingier in numerically grading this series and has graded very few coins higher than "67" even with the "FS" designation.)

On 11/26/2023 at 8:03 PM, edhalbrook said:

Is the for example the 2003 s nickel in a proof set the same as  2003 s nickel in a silver proof set? 

  The cents, nickels and small dollars in the silver proof sets are exactly the same as those in the clad proof sets. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:32 PM, edhalbrook said:

How high can a nickel be graded of it didn't have all the steps? Just wondering. There isn't really any nickels worth paying that kind of money to get graded. The regular set coins. 

If the coin deserved a 70 it could get a 70 without full steps.... An FS of FT descriptor is what's called a strike designation. However, a coin must grade above MS60 to receive the full steps designation. If the coin grades AU58 or below even with the full steps showing the coin will not get the FS designation. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[powermad5000]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:32 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

If the coin grades AU58 or blow even with the full steps showing the coin will not get the FS designation.

I am not so sure of this. A couple years ago, I got a Mercury Dime back graded as AU 58 FB which before I got that back did not think that would be possible. Using that example, I think saying anything below MS 60 would not get attributed as such cannot be used as a blanket statement.

I think if a nickel has full steps regardless of it being AU that it would get attributed with the FS designation, although on nickels, I am sure not many below MS 60 would still retain full steps and it would be the exception, not the norm, in the same fashion as a nickel could get an MS 68 grade and not have full steps. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:13 PM, powermad5000 said:

I am not so sure of this. A couple years ago, I got a Mercury Dime back graded as AU 58 FB which before I got that back did not think that would be possible. Using that example, I think saying anything below MS 60 would not get attributed as such cannot be used as a blanket statement.

I think if a nickel has full steps regardless of it being AU that it would get attributed with the FS designation, although on nickels, I am sure not many below MS 60 would still retain full steps and it would be the exception, not the norm, in the same fashion as a nickel could get an MS 68 grade and not have full steps. 

A full steps nickel is a term used to describe a Jefferson nickel that has at least five full steps visible at the base of Monticello on the reverse. It is a sign of a fully struck coin and is highly sought after by collectors. Full steps nickels must grade Mint State-60 or better and can only apply to uncirculated coins. To identify a full steps nickel, a 5X magnifying glass is recommended ¹. The grading services PCGS and NGC both use the abbreviation “FS” to designate Full Steps. Only regular strike coins graded MS60 or higher may receive the designation. PCGS awards “FS” for coins displaying either 5 or 6 steps. Initially, NGC only awarded “FS” for coins displaying 6 steps. Starting from February 16, 2004, NGC refined their qualifications and began using the designations “5FS” or “6FS” based on the number of complete sets visible ². Full Steps Jefferson Nickels are valued at a premium to comparable grades without the designation. For certain issues, coins exhibiting full steps can be extremely rare and carry enormous premiums. For modern issues of the series after 1986, coins with full steps are generally easier to find ¹.

[powermad5000]

I own plenty of FS nickels Mike. I was using the Merc as an example which I stated it was an example in my response.

I know how they get graded and what the requirements are.

Can you show me where in the NGC grading rules this statement is found that any nickel in AU will not be considered for an FS designation??

[Lem E]

PCGS requires the coin to be MS to get the FS designation but NGC does not. NGC will give any coin the FS designation regardless of grade.

[powermad5000]

I just randomly picked a year and looked in the NGC Coin Explorer and found a 1993 P Jefferson Nickel with one in the census under AU 58 5FS. Please explain.

[cobymordet]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:16 PM, EagleRJO said:

Curious that there were "Souvenir" mint sets, but no official "Uncirculated" mint sets in those years.  Were they both "business strike" coins (intended for circulation)?

Late to the party. . .

Yahoo: (quick and easy):

The Mint had halted production of its annual uncirculated sets in 1982 and 1983 due to federal budget cuts, and a gripping economic recession that peaked in late 1982 meant few Americans were hanging on to rolls of new coins.Aug 18, 2022

 

Coinworld: (less quick & easy)

Budget cuts at U.S. Mint hit collectors in early 1980s

New collectors are often puzzled by the fact that the U.S. Mint did not produce Uncirculated Mint sets for the years 1982 and 1983.

The gap in Uncirculated set production occurred ostensibly because of across-the-board budget cuts ordered by President Reagan soon after he was sworn into office in January of 1981. Reagan had won election on a platform of holding down federal hiring and government expenditures.

In April of 1981, Treasurer Angela “Bay” Buchanan told members of Congress that in order to meet the President’s mandates the Mint would request funding for 179 fewer full-time positions in the 1982 budget and that because of the reduction in the workforce something else had to go.

Mint officials admitted they deliberately chose to drop one of the Mint’s most popular products — annual Mint sets containing Uncirculated examples of each coin struck for circulation — from its product line and they fully anticipated that 1981 would be the last production year for Mint sets.

Collectors immediately questioned the decision. Sales of Uncirculated Mint sets had steadily increased, with sales of the 1977 Mint sets breaking for the first time the 2 million threshold, and 1981 sales were at the 2.9 million level. 

But Mint managers identified the Uncirculated Mint set program as the most “expendable” because collectors could obtain Uncirculated coins from bags and rolls in order to build their sets. 

The Reagan manifesto to reduce government spending incorporated the theory that the private sector could do many things more efficiently and cheaper than government agencies. Mint officials were not naive. They knew private sector companies would step in to package and market Uncirculated sets. 

Acting Mint Director Dr. Alan J. Goldman (Donna Pope had not yet been confirmed as director), referring to the private-sector theory, observed: “I think it’s worthwhile just letting nature take its course and see whether that in fact is true or not.”

Entrepreneurs did take on the challenge. Hence, today, 1982 and 1983 Uncirculated sets can be found in a variety of packaging. But all lacked the quality of Mint packaged sets, and prices were not lower. 

Congressional action restored Uncirculated Mint sets in 1984.

 - Coinworld (Beth Deisher, 03/06/2015)

Edited November 28, 2023 by cobymordet
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