How do I price a coin before it is graded? 1 1

[Qwiksword]

I have a 1884 S Morgan $1.  Very good condition as far as I can tell.  It is shiny and detailed but has a scratch on her cheek.  If it is MS61 or higher it could be worth >$10k, if it is not MS grade it could be worth <$1000.  The pricing for grading assumes you already know the value so you can submit it to the correct category.  Please guide me through submitting this coin for grading.

 

[dprince1138]

For an idea of the typical market value, you can go here.

NGC Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC

For a general idea of a grade, you can go here;

Sheldon coin grading scale - Wikipedia

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

   Contrary to an increasing but incorrect usage, to "grade" a coin is not synonymous with sending it to a third-party grading service!  From my standpoint as a collector for over fifty years, to grade a coin means to examine the coin carefully and form my own opinion of its grade based upon my own knowledge of grading. Without such knowledge, one cannot form a reasonable opinion as to whether a coin is worth the substantial cost of third-party grading. If you don't have this knowledge, you have no business submitting the coin to a grading service yourself and should not attempt to do so without advice from an experienced dealer or collector. See Jeff Garrett: The Art of Rare Coin Submissions | NGC (ngccoin.com). You can check for dealers in your area at Find Coin Shops & Dealers | Coin Dealer Locator | NGC (ngccoin.com) or attend a local coin show.

   If you can provide us with clear, cropped photos of each side of your 1884-S Morgan dollar, forum members can attempt an estimate of its grade. You can also look at PCGS Photograde for photographic images of examples at each circulated and uncirculated grade. https://www.pcgs.com/photograde. However, a proper evaluation of the coin would require in-person examination. The 1884-S Morgan dollar is scarce as an uncirculated coin, and there are numerous pieces--probably more than genuine uncirculated examples--that are lightly worn and have been "cleaned" or polished to make them look uncirculated to those without the necessary knowledge.

   

[BillJones]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:17 AM, Qwiksword said:

I have a 1884 S Morgan $1.  Very good condition as far as I can tell.  It is shiny and detailed but has a scratch on her cheek.  If it is MS61 or higher it could be worth >$10k, if it is not MS grade it could be worth <$1000.  The pricing for grading assumes you already know the value so you can submit it to the correct category.  Please guide me through submitting this coin for grading.

 

This is very hard for non collectors who have no idea about grading coins. My suggestion is that you take a picture and post it here. Other collectors and dealers can give you an approximate grade. 

In general, the 1884-S dollar is very hard to find in strict Mint State and expensive. In the circulated grades, including even Almost Uncirculated, it is fairly common. 

Here are photos of a Mint State Morgan Dollar. You might compare your coin with this one. A prior generation of the current ANACS grading company graded this MS-63. ANACS started a part of American Numismatic Association, but was sold to private owners. I have a large collection, but Morgan Silver Dollars are not at the top of my list. I am a retired dealer and have been a collector for over 60 years. 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by BillJones

[Greenstang]

Not sure how you obtained this Morgan, but because of the value, it is also heavily counterfeited.   
As suggested by previous members, post a clear photo of both sides and we can start from there.

[dprince1138]

Morgan Silver Dollars - How to Avoid Buying Fakes

Fake Silver Coins: 14 Ways to Spot Counterfeits - Silver Coins

[EagleRJO]

Please disregard any comments which may lead people to be fooled into thinking you can read a few linked articles about counterfeits and look at some genuine examples to identify more deceptive fakes or plow ahead buying raw coins that are not in grading service slabs.  That would be doing a disservice to those reading that.

There are some very deceptive counterfeits, including ones I have encountered that were very difficult to identify after a very careful in-hand review with die marker references, particularly for more valuable coins like an 1884-S Morgan Dollar being discussed here and in the following NGC article.

NGC Article: "Superfake" 1884-S Morgan Dollar

While you could post some photos of the coin to see if there are any obvious signs of it being a counterfeit, that won't provide a definitive answer.  I think you have received some good advice to bring the coin to a local coin dealer to have them look at it and possibly submit for you.

[dprince1138]

Also, NGC has a customer service phone number that you can call and they may be able to give you some good advice.
Coin Grading | Numismatic Guaranty Company | NGC

1-800-NGC-COIN, 1-941-360-3990 or service@NGCCoin.com

PCGS CoinFacts: Your Digital Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins

PCGS Coin Price Guide: The Industry Standard for US Coin Values

Edited November 16, 2023 by dprince1138

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

To the OP, please disregard comments made by @dprince1138. He/she has provided incorrect and inaccurate information in many threads and posts across this forum. 

I don't think anyone of us can give you any accurate information regarding your coin without clear, cropped photos of both sides of the coin and in this case possibly one photo of the coin from the side showing the edge.

If you cannot provide these photos, then I agree with the advice that the coin needs to be taken to a local expert or dealer with proper experience in the Morgan dollar series for a full assessment. A knowledgeable dealer or expert should be able to tell you whether or not the coin is authentic or not having the coin in hand to view and put it through some tests. There is a dealer locater on this website under the resources tab.

If there is no local shop or expert that you can get to, post the photos here and we will do our best, but ultimately it may need to be checked over on an in hand inspection as to its authenticity.

Edited November 16, 2023 by powermad5000

[dprince1138]

Coins have die varieties, i.e., the type of profile image, as well, which generally can make a coin even more valuable.

Morgan Dollars (1878-1921) | VarietyPlus® | NGC

Morgan Dollars (1878-1921) | Price Guide & Values | NGC

Also, there is another forum where you can ask any questions that you may have.

Coin Collecting Discussions At Coin Community Forum

Edited November 16, 2023 by dprince1138

[cobymordet]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:35 PM, dprince1138 said:

Also, there is another forum where you can ask any questions that you may have.

Coin Collecting Discussions At Coin Community Forum

Dprince1138: Quaeso fac profectionem tuam celerem ac stabilem.

 

Qwiksword: As multiple responses have indicated, you could have a potentially valuable coin, or you may not.  Coin conditions can be deceiving.  Understanding how to grade a coin is not easy for those unfamiliar with it, sometimes even for those with some familiarity.  There are multiple, knowledgeable, and honest (sometimes too honest) people here willing to help you understand various aspects of your coin.  Unfortunately, nothing but speculation and cross-talk will occur if you are unable to supply pictures.  Also, as our favorite interloper has indicated, there are multiple reputable forums similar to this one that you are welcome to visit, but I assure you, pictures will be requested as well.  It is simply the nature of the beast.  Good luck with your coin and whatever choices you make, don't be hasty.  Take a day and confer with a trusted source before you make any big decisions. 

[Liam ll]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:17 AM, Qwiksword said:

I have a 1884 S Morgan $1.  Very good condition as far as I can tell.  It is shiny and detailed but has a scratch on her cheek.  If it is MS61 or higher it could be worth >$10k, if it is not MS grade it could be worth <$1000.  The pricing for grading assumes you already know the value so you can submit it to the correct category.  Please guide me through submitting this coin for grading.

  Despite the many well intentioned and experienced replies, I would like to add to this. As a newbie I had the same question and concerns, hence a different response. But, do understand that the guidance you have already been given by the experienced members is correct. "Guide you through submitting this coin for grading..."

Both NGC and PCGS have detailed processes that you can research, even contacting them personally to do so. If you've chosen to do this, understand there are costs that can exceed the current market value of the coin. Also, understand that, determining the manner and format in which it would be sold can have additional cost. Remember taxes also, if it is pertinent to your sales process. This is my "newbie" process when asking myself the same questions about a raw coin I have... Check the information NGC and PCGS provides regarding that coin, if that doesn't negate the potential value, move on to Ebay sold, not listings, already similar coins that have sold, if that overall value doesn't negate the potential sale value, go on to your local dealers websites and find what similar coins are being sold for. That will provide you with a loose average of what the coin is actually going for on the open market. Loose being the key term.  At that point determine if the gamble is worth it to you, if profiting financially is your goal. And never forget that value doesn't guarantee sale value.  Once again, understand that the expense of the process can easily exceed the current  financial value of the coin, if profiting financially is the intent. As a side note, never believe you can personally grade a coin at this point, those that are experienced and dedicated to that see things that we don't. Provide pictures as they've mentioned...but don't forget the person who will actually grade and slab that coin isn't on this forum, and they will decide a grade without any concern for any of our experience, opinions, or attitudes.

 

[Qwiksword]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:17 AM, Qwiksword said:

I have a 1884 S Morgan $1.  Very good condition as far as I can tell.  It is shiny and detailed but has a scratch on her cheek.  If it is MS61 or higher it could be worth >$10k, if it is not MS grade it could be worth <$1000.  The pricing for grading assumes you already know the value so you can submit it to the correct category.  Please guide me through submitting this coin for grading.

 

[BillJones]

@Qwiksword, Your coin is definitely not Mint State. It has a definite rub on the eagle's breast feathers. This is not unusual for this date. there are many coins that are "close," but not quite Mint State. 

It's still good if the coin graded AU-50 ($380) or AU-58 ($1,900). I think that it is closer to the AU-50 than AU-58. The reason is that collectors who can't afford the Mint State pieces can use the AU coins which are a close match to the Uncirculated coins. The problem is if the piece has been cleaned or polished. I can't tell if that has been done to it from your photos. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by BillJones

[Sandon]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:20 AM, Sandon said:

The 1884-S Morgan dollar is scarce as an uncirculated coin, and there are numerous pieces--probably more than genuine uncirculated examples--that are lightly worn and have been "cleaned" or polished to make them look uncirculated to those without the necessary knowledge.

   I am quoting what I said before because, unfortunately, the photos you posted show that your coin is an example of the pieces to which I was referring.

   The coin definitely has wear on the high points, such as Liberty's hair and the eagle's breast. It has no better than lower end About Uncirculated (AU 50-53) details and is definitely not uncirculated. From what I can see--the photos aren't great--it has a "washed out" appearance with an unnatural shine that leads me to conclude that a grading service would likely designate it as having been "cleaned". (Compare this to the original luster of the MS 63 graded 1883-O posted above.) The rim appears to have been filed, which can also lead to a "details" grade. It appears to be a genuine 1884 Morgan dollar, but I can't evaluate from the photos the possibility that the mintmark was added.  In the unlikely event it received a "straight" AU 50 or better grade, it might be barely worth the grading fees, but I wouldn't submit it.

   I recommend that you attend coin shows or other venues where you can see examples of uncirculated Morgan dollars of this era to become familiar with what they are supposed to look like. These photos of an 1888-O that NGC recently graded MS 64 show the hair, breast feather and other details that a reasonably well struck, uncirculated example of a piece of the design used from 1879-1900 (and some 1878 Philadelphia and 1901-02) should look like:

[EagleRJO]

It's really hard to tell much of anything or see if it might be genuine from those photos, which are all blurry and except the last one not centered, other than it appears to be a Morgan like coin with a little wear that has an off color or appearance which might indicate it was dipped or cleaned.

You could try taking better photos, perhaps by resting your hand on something while keeping directly above and close to the coin.

[powermad5000]

If it was a fake, I would say it is a really good one then. I can see some of the detail in the lower tail of the eagle and a fake would be hard to get those details right. The "lines" across the feathers of the right wing are also present and seem to be proper. I also see the "teeth" mark on the obverse in front of the face where another Morgan struck the field in front of the face.

I think it is an AU but I also do believe it has been cleaned as it has an unnatural white appearance and would receive a details grade which would substantially reduce its value. Being there is a very wide disparity in value between just AU 55 ($525 current price guide) and AU 58 ($2,200 current price guide), I think a details grade would knock this coin down to the bottom AU value if not even into XF ($225-$120).

When a coin is cleaned or gets a details grade for whatever reason, it generally loses 1/3 to 1/2 of its value without impairment. It is just a reality of the market. Nobody here is saying you cleaned the coin as it was most likely cleaned before you obtained it. Impaired coins still do find a buyer eventually, but expect to take a big hit on the premium it could get if it had original surfaces.