Nicoke Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 It weighs less than the other 1776 quarters i have. It is thinner on one side more than the other. I can also see the side squeezing out when I look down from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 What is the weight to two decimal points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 It is in good shape from what I can see. The coin being thinner on one side may be the copper edge showing more than the silver. It is only worth a quarter anyway you look at it unless it is a lot lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 3:13 PM, Nicoke said: It weighs less than the other 1776 quarters i have. It is thinner on one side more than the other. I can also see the side squeezing out when I look down from above. What is the weight compared to the mint spec of 5.67g with a tolerance of 0.23g? The edge reeding seems intact, so it can't be broadstruck. It may just be a coin that is slightly out of round with a planchet that was punched from a thinner than normal portion of a coil. These would be considered minor with no added value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoke Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 It was only on a kitchen scale. It was reading 5 the other quarters were all 6. Ill have it weighed on a better scale. If it is less what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) On 11/9/2023 at 3:39 PM, Nicoke said: It was only on a kitchen scale. It was reading 5 the other quarters were all 6. Ill have it weighed on a better scale. If it is less what does that mean? It is unlikely that it will be worth any more than 25 cents. It is still a common coin. At one time there were 16 billion or more of them out there ............ Edited November 9, 2023 by J P M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Quote It was only on a kitchen scale. A kitchen scale is useless for weighing cins, you need an accurate weight to at least two decimal points to be of any help. Newenglandrarities 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) On 11/9/2023 at 1:39 PM, Nicoke said: It was only on a kitchen scale. It was reading 5 the other quarters were all 6. Ill have it weighed on a better scale. If it is less what does that mean? Welcome to the forum, your coin would have to weigh under the mint tolerance of .23g less than the standard weight of 5.67g before any discussion of added value can even begin. The reason your kitchen scale shows 5 is because it cannot weigh precisely enough and rounds to the closest round number. Once you have a correct weight to two decimal places, and if that weight is less than 5.44g, then you have something worth investigating. The odds are that it weighs right around or just under 5.5g (which triggers your kitchen scale to round down to 5) which is within mint tolerance. Edited November 9, 2023 by Coinbuf EagleRJO and powermad5000 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) Elements\alloys have different densities, e.g., silver, copper, zinc, etc. Generally, a difference in weight (+ or -) indicates counterfeit. Also, different alloys\elements will make a different tone when dropped onto a hard surface. However, there are methods to counter act weight differences, such as making a counterfeit smaller or larger. Also, just fyi, for older coins pre-1900 particularly, coin weight comparisons must be of the same die design as some later dies were modified to address the difference in the price of silver. For coins with greater value, you may want to research some of the methods to identify weight discrepencies . Reminds me of national sanctioned bowling tournaments, where bowling balls must be weighed on 2 sides to determine that there is not too much counter weight. However, this has been laxed as the newer style of the popular thumb hole only bowling allows the bowler to simply shift their hand position for a greater counter balance. Edited November 9, 2023 by dprince1138 Newenglandrarities, powermad5000, Hoghead515 and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Also, please crop images to display only the coin. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EagleRJO Posted November 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) On 11/9/2023 at 4:22 PM, dprince1138 said: Elements\alloys have different densities, e.g., silver, copper, zinc, etc. Generally, a difference in weight (+ or -) indicates counterfeit. Also, different alloys\elements will make a different tone when dropped onto a hard surface. However, there are methods to counter act weight differences, such as making a counterfeit smaller or larger. Oh boy, a discussion of a very common modern 1976-D clad coin that may or may not be out of spec possibly being a counterfeit, based in part on bowling tournament requirements. I am trying real hard to ignore posts like these, as the op should do. An out of weight spec modern clad coin, if that is even the case here, would almost certainly be from an out of spec blank coil at the mint. Edited November 10, 2023 by EagleRJO Mike Meenderink , Hoghead515 and J P M 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post l.cutler Posted November 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2023 The vast majority of the time, the cause of an off-weight coin is a slightly thick or thin planchet. dprince1138, EagleRJO, Hoghead515 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 4:07 PM, l.cutler said: The vast majority of the time, the cause of an off-weight coin is a slightly thick or thin planchet. Seems likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hoghead515 Posted November 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 4:47 PM, EagleRJO said: Oh boy, a discussion of a very common modern 1976-D clad coin that may or may not be out of spec possibly being a counterfeit, when that most certainly would be from an out of spec coin planchet, based in part on bowling tournament requirements. I am trying real hard to ignore posts like these, as the op should do. I a little bit. J P M, powermad5000 and Mike Meenderink 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 2:45 PM, J P M said: At one time there were 16 billion or more of them out there ............ Until myself and @Modwriter started saving each and every one of them that we came across... Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 For the OP, I don't believe there is any record to date of anyone counterfeiting a common billions minted coin worth face value. Please ignore any comments made along this line. I will apologize to you that we have a troll currently in the forum who is making post after post full of incorrect information. It is possible the clad layer is a little thicker on one side than on the other as well, but typically weight discrepancies are based upon the planchet weight before striking. In modern high speed coin production, things like this can easily happen and escape the scrutiny of the Mint employee, so we are not saying it is not possible for you to have one of these, but the members keep asking for proper weight for a reason as it is not typical to have an underweight specimen of one of these. We do like it when someone does have something out of the norm on here (besides the usual incorrectly attributed or damaged coins), so you could probably take the coin to a nearby jeweler and ask him to weigh it. You would get a correct weight to two decimal places (hundredths) then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoghead515 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 3:14 PM, powermad5000 said: Until myself and @Modwriter started saving each and every one of them that we came across... I got a pretty good little hoard of them myself. I pick every one I see out of circulation for some odd reason. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 5:57 PM, Hoghead515 said: I got a pretty good little hoard of them myself. I pick every one I see out of circulation for some odd reason. Sorry I forgot about that from that other thread Hog. We will make our best dent in that number together! As for the OP, I hope you return to this thread with the observed weight. Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 (edited) On 11/9/2023 at 3:22 PM, dprince1138 said: Elements\alloys have different densities, e.g., silver, copper, zinc, etc. Generally, a difference in weight (+ or -) indicates counterfeit. Also, different alloys\elements will make a different tone when dropped onto a hard surface. However, there are methods to counter act weight differences, such as making a counterfeit smaller or larger. Also, just fyi, for older coins pre-1900 particularly, coin weight comparisons must be of the same die design as some later dies were modified to address the difference in the price of silver. For coins with greater value, you may want to research some of the methods to identify weight discrepencies . Reminds me of national sanctioned bowling tournaments, where bowling balls must be weighed on 2 sides to determine that there is not too much counter weight. However, this has been laxed as the newer style of the popular thumb hole only bowling allows the bowler to simply shift their hand position for a greater counter balance. The points that I had made here were from sources that I had read about counterfeiting and die varieties. The density (specific gravity) of the bulk material (whole object) is the weighted average of all the materials that compose the object. Therefore, as the article pointed out, by alloying (combining) metals with densities above and below silver in the correct ratio, the resulting density of the alloy (bulk object) can be made to exactly match that of silver. If such an alloy were made and then plated in pure silver, it would pass all surface tests and the density test. That said, the speed of sound in any material is a function of the material (and condition – thickness, temperature, boundary conditions etc.). Unless the forger really knew his business and went to extreme efforts, he would not be able to get sound to behave in the alloy as it would behave in pure solid silver. The speed of sound and, for those who want to go the extra mile, presence and properties of various acoustic wave modes would change. Anyone capable of creating an alloy with the same density of silver as well as the same acoustic properties could make far more money at far less risk doing legal work. Another tool to test for the dimensions of the American Silver Eagle is The Fisch. It can correctly verify the weight, thickness, diameter, and shape of 4 different coins. (Weight, as the only measure, can fool, as manipulations to the shape of a coin can be made). Arrows at the date in 1853 and 1873 indicated changes made in the coin's mass (from 2.67 grams to 2.49 grams in 1853, then to 2.50 grams in 1873). The first change was made in response to rising silver prices, while the latter alteration was brought about by the Mint Act of 1873 which, in an attempt to make U.S. coinage the currency of the world, added a small amount of mass to the dime, quarter, and half-dollar to bring their weights in line with fractions of the French 5-franc piece.[12] The change also ensured the quarter dollar (which is valued 2.5 times the dime) weighed 2.5 times the dime (6.25g), and the half dollar (twice the value of the quarter dollar) weighed twice what the quarter dollar weighed (12.5g). In this way, a specific weight of these coins, no matter the mixture of denominations, would always be worth the same. This relation in weight and value continued in the cupronickel coins from 1965 on Edited November 12, 2023 by dprince1138 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Of course, the confusion could be in response to the ignorance of the dynamics of bowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 The confusion is from why you are going down the road of counterfeiting when there is not even a case for it here. Then more confusion as to why your "explanation" goes into ASE's and then back into the 1800's when the coin at hand is a 1976 Washington Quarter. This constant mixing of apples and oranges. And you still have yet to answer a direct question on any topic much less provide correct information on any topic. Also, keep your bowling references to yourself as they have no place in this forum. Hoghead515 and Sandon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 On 11/12/2023 at 2:57 PM, powermad5000 said: The confusion is from why you are going down the road of counterfeiting when there is not even a case for it here. I don't think there is any confusion about that. The only reasonable explanation for dprince1138 discussing counterfeits of a modern business strike issue common clad coin that is likely only worth face value is an attempt to prop himself up in support of his very shady practice of buying garbage raw coins on Etsy and then flipping them on Etsy/eBay by slapping on a variety without doing a proper authentication or attribution to fleece less knowledgeable collectors. He is constantly making off-topic or inaccurate posts about counterfeits and varieties, and it has gotten so bad one person asked for the entire topic to be deleted because it was being hijacked. He has even started two topics about these garbage raw coins from Etsy that he is flipping, refused to answer reasonable question related to that, and even provided a link to purchase the garbage Etsy/eBay flippers in one of them. It really doesn't paint this forum or NGC in a good light, and I think the only question is how long NGC and @Administrator are going to allow this to continue. Hoghead515 and powermad5000 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoke Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 I will have it weighed tomorrow. Thank you for the explanations. I will post it asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 On 11/12/2023 at 4:33 PM, Nicoke said: I will have it weighed tomorrow. Thank you for the explanations. I will post it asap. Why? I ask without any ulterior motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
