1982 D small date bronze penny 3 3

[Terri18]

I have found a 1982 small date penny and need it authenticated and graded 

how do I go about that.

It weighs 3.07 

I also have a large date not sure it worth anything 

 

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

    Sorry, but both of the 1982-D cents in your photos are large dates and are abundantly common in the 95% copper composition indicated by a weight of approximately 3.11 grams. Neither coin has any collector value. Perhaps your confusion stems from the mint mark being in a lower position on the second coin. Mint marks were punched by hand on each coinage die until the early 1990s and differ in positions.

   Please refer to the following graphic provided in a topic on this forum by @EagleRJO for the differences between 1982 "large" and "small" dates, which include differences in the lettering:

[Greenstang]

Just go by the distance from the rim to the two. Small space = Large  Date.

[Coinbuf]

On 10/21/2023 at 2:31 PM, Terri18 said:

I have found a 1982 small date penny and need it authenticated and graded 

how do I go about that.

It weighs 3.07 

I also have a large date not sure it worth anything 

Both are large dates and have no value over face value.

[EagleRJO]

You typ just have to look at the shape or font of the "2" and the offset from the rim, which in this case clearly indicates a large date for both.

Keep in mind there are only a few Bronze 1982-D 1C Small Date transitional error coins known to exist from billions of cents struck that year, and they are not believed to have come from general circulation.  You have better odds hitting the Powerball lottery or finding a real rainbow unicorn. 

[Terri18]

Large and small date 1982 copper Pennie's??

[Sandon]

      No, once again these are both large dates. Here is a 1982-D small date, this one the usual copper plated zinc (NGC Coin Explorer image) Note the greater distance of the "2" from the rim and the other differences:

[EagleRJO]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:10 AM, Terri18 said:

Large and small date 1982 copper Pennie's??

On 10/22/2023 at 9:26 AM, Sandon said:

Note the greater distance of the "2" from the rim and the other differences:

The attached which is part of the referenced infographic should make it clear what Sandon is referring to.

[VKurtB]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:10 AM, Terri18 said:

Large and small date 1982 copper Pennie's??

WHAT ON EARTH are people looking at to determine these are different???? They're not! They're the same! Both Large Date!

[BranBran]

Top: small date?

Bottom: large date?

[EagleRJO]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:37 AM, BranBran said:

Top: small date? ... Bottom: large date?

Yes.  And I will bet the family ranch the small date on top weighs roughly between 2.40g to 2.60g on a calibrated scale with a 0.01g accuracy indicative of a 1982-D small date copper plated zinc cent with no added value.  You are basically chasing your tail looking for the super rare 1982-D small date brass cent that would weigh about 3.11g.

[Greenstang]

If you are just looking to identify a Small/ Large 1982 D date, then you are correct.  
If you are looking for the rare copper1982D Small Date, you are better off spending your time looking elsewear.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Greenstang
Correct typo

[powermad5000]

You are correct on the identification of the coins, but you would need an accurate scale (one that weighs to the hundredth decimal place and preferably not a cheap pocket scale from China that consistently has proven to be an inaccurate scale) to weigh the small date. You cannot make claim to it being the bronze "unicorn" without further investigation.

[Stan Gioia]

Hi

Found a 1982D small date bronze but it only weights 2.82 grams. It is environmentally damaged which may account for the weight loss. I submitted it to PCSG and they said it was zinc. I am fighting with them but am getting nowhere. I believe the photos prove it is bronze. I removed some of the environmental damage on its rim and did the same to a zinc as shown in the attached photo. Thanks for taking a look.

 

                                                                                

[cobymordet]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:55 AM, Stan Gioia said:

Found a 1982D small date bronze but it only weights 2.82 grams. It is environmentally damaged which may account for the weight loss. I submitted it to PCSG and they said it was zinc. I am fighting with them but am getting nowhere. I believe the photos prove it is bronze. I removed some of the environmental damage on its rim and did the same to a zinc as shown in the attached photo. Thanks for taking a look.

Hi and welcome.  In the future, you would want to create a separate topic specific to your coin.  This thread is a bit outdated. In response yo your statement.  PCGS is one of the most reputable Third-Party Grading services.  The key difference between a bronze cent and a zinc cent is the weight.  A Bronze penny will weigh 3+ grams.  Your coin is not bronze.  The environmental damage on your coin is not nearly enough to decrease the weight.  Visually, it is most likely impossible to distinguish every bronze cent from a zinc cent.  Many, sure, most, maybe, but not all, ever.  It is unlikely that you will accomplish anything in attempting to fight PCGS.  The only way to prove it is Bronze is to damage it further by exposing the inner part of the coin.  Good luck on your efforts.

[powermad5000]

This is an old post. You would be best to start a new thread with your coin.

That said, from what you have provided, your cent is NOT bronze. It is in fact in line with the weight of a zinc small date cent which is supposed to weigh around 2.5g. I am not sure how you arrived at a weight of 2.82 grams with the coin in the holder unless you came up with this weight before it was submitted to PCGS. If it was derived in the holder, there will be a variance of the weight of the plastic from holder to holder. If it was weighed before being holdered, it could have been struck on an overweight planchet but I would also then question the calibration of your scale.

You cannot simply look at a coin and determine its metal content and confidently say what type of metal it is solely on a visual basis.

Even all these things set aside, a bronze cent of this date would weigh between 3.05g-3.08g. Therefore, there is no way your cent is a bronze transitional.

One more thing to note, in your attempts to remove environmental damage, you did further damage to the coin. If this was truly one of the unicorn cents everybody is seeking, your actions would have caused what otherwise would have been an expensive coin to become highly devalued. In the future, do not attempt to clean your coins or use methods to "improve" the surfaces as they will only damage the surface.

Edited March 22 by powermad5000

[Coinbuf]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:55 AM, Stan Gioia said:

Hi

Found a 1982D small date bronze but it only weights 2.82 grams. It is environmentally damaged which may account for the weight loss. I submitted it to PCSG and they said it was zinc. I am fighting with them but am getting nowhere. I believe the photos prove it is bronze. I removed some of the environmental damage on its rim and did the same to a zinc as shown in the attached photo.

As noted above you should always start a new thread rather than piggybacking on an older one, less confusing that way.   Do you have a photo of the coin only on a properly calibrated scale?

[VKurtB]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:10 AM, Terri18 said:

Large and small date 1982 copper Pennie's??

No, both are large date. 

[Henri Charriere]

And both are CENTS, not PENNIES.  (no apostrophe needed; pennies is the plural of penny.)

[powermad5000]

Well, it depends @Henri Charriere. What if it was Pennie's (attribution : female) cents?    

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/23/2024 at 1:48 AM, powermad5000 said:

Well, it depends @Henri Charriere. What if it was Pennie's (attribution : female) cents?    

In that case, it would be Penny's attribution, but who knows?

[J P M]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:55 PM, Stan Gioia said:

Hi

Found a 1982D small date bronze but it only weights 2.82 grams. It is environmentally damaged which may account for the weight loss. I submitted it to PCSG and they said it was zinc. I am fighting with them but am getting nowhere. I believe the photos prove it is bronze. I removed some of the environmental damage on its rim and did the same to a zinc as shown in the attached photo. Thanks for taking a look.

 

                                                                                

You found one of the rarest coins in the US and scratched off the edge to prove it was a copper 1982 D .  Why would you do that. You could have sent it into NGC. Now it is a damaged 1982 D. I can say from the TRUEVIEW photos it looks like a zinc to me. PCGS Certificate Verification Coin Details for Cert #48855382

Edited March 24 by J P M

[Stan Gioia]

Hi

Found a 1982D small date bronze but it only weights 2.82 grams. It is environmentally damaged which may account for the weight loss. I submitted it to PCSG and they said it was zinc. I am fighting with them but am getting nowhere. I believe the photos prove it is bronze. I removed some of the environmental damage on its rim and did the same to a zinc as shown in the attached photo. Thanks for taking a look.

 

                                                                                

[Sandon]

@Stan Gioia--As you were previously advised, your inquiry should have been posted as a new topic, not as a reply to someone else's topic about a different coin from months ago. (Please don't create a new topic about this coin at this point.) Nevertheless, you have already received generally good advice, notwithstanding that you don't want to hear it, and seem to want to persist until someone finally gives you what you would regard as the "right" answer.

   Although @cobymordet and @powermad5000 are correct that one often couldn't tell the difference between a 1982 brass (95% copper) and copper-plated zinc cent just by looking, in this case I'm pretty sure I can tell.  Your coin has a number of small, raised plating blisters on Lincoln's body and in the obverse field that are indicative of a copper-plated zinc cent.  If I had received this coin in change, upon seeing these blisters I would have made no further inquiry about its weight or composition and gotten on with my life.

   Per the Coin World Almanac, the standard weight for a brass cent is 3.11 grams, with a legal tolerance of plus or minus 0.13 gram.  A weight of 2.82 grams, if correct, would be substantially below the minimum weight for a brass cent of 2.98 grams, and it would not be reasonable to believe that the small area of reverse corrosion or encrustation that I can see would account for the lower weight. (If anything, the encrustation could have slightly increased the coin's weight.)

   If you want to keep on wasting your time and especially money, you can submit this coin to NGC, ANACS, ICG, and/or CAC Grading and continue getting the "wrong" answer, but I assume that you have better things to do.  

[Stan Gioia]

Thanks for the feed back. The coin weighs 2.82 grams, puts it between what zinc and bronze should weigh, in fact it is closer to bronze. Trying to prove it is bronze I made a big mistake and scraped some of the edge and saw nothing but bronze shinny gold color and did the same to zinc and it shows a silver color,  To me it clearly, like nite and day, shows that my coin is bronze but am being told not to believe what I see and from the feed back no one else sees. Is there a test to tell what a coin is made of besides weighing. I would like to have NCG have a look but am not sure what to ask them for. If the first PCGS appraiser labeled my coin a 1982D small date zinc, environmentally damaged and upgradable, making it worthless, I do not believe it was given a chance. 

[Coinbuf]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:53 AM, Stan Gioia said:

Hi

Found a 1982D small date bronze but it only weights 2.82 grams. It is environmentally damaged which may account for the weight loss. I submitted it to PCSG and they said it was zinc. I am fighting with them but am getting nowhere. I believe the photos prove it is bronze. I removed some of the environmental damage on its rim and did the same to a zinc as shown in the attached photo. Thanks for taking a look.

 

                                                                                

You posted this same post last fri, repeating yourself is not likely to receive a different answer.   Your coin has already been evaluated by a very reputable TPG and they determined it to be a zinc core cent.   From your photos I see every reason to believe that opinion and absolutely no evidence to not.   By filing the rim the coin is forever damaged and even if you did have (which you don't) the third example of an 82-D small date, it will never straight grade at any of the four reputable TPG's.

[VKurtB]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:28 PM, Henri Charriere said:

And both are CENTS, not PENNIES.  (no apostrophe needed; pennies is the plural of penny.)

Or… is it ‘pence’?

[Henri Charriere]

🐓:  Hey Q!  This thread's been revived!  It'd be a shame to see it go to waste...  🤣

Q.A.:  I agree. The following is going to earn me a whole new slew of enemies, but, ah, what the heck. I have never shrunk from my obligation as a coin collector to "broaden the body of knowledge," and I see no reason to do so now.

In reviewing the foregoing thread, I have noticed the names of two alloys, brass and bronze, being used interchangeably.  Each, however, is notably different.

Generally, brass is comprised of two metals, in the following percentages: 67% Cu and 33% Zn. These levels can vary considerably, as seen in the specs of Lincoln cents, but no other elements, i.e., metals, are present. Brass is brass.

Bronze is comprised of 88% Cu and 12% Sn (tin) + other elements such as aluminum, manganese, phosphorus and silicon.

(Note:  One 1943 cent struck in 86.41% Tin and 8.37% Antimony, with other trace metals, was authenticated by NGC in 2019.)

While the composition of cents has changed over the years -- including a Cu-Ni alloy used briefly in the 1860's -- it has never deviated enough to justify the use of the term brass where bronze was indicated, and vise versa. 

 

Edited March 25 by Henri Charriere
Removal of one extraneous word; word substitution.

[powermad5000]

On 3/25/2024 at 11:30 AM, Stan Gioia said:

Is there a test to tell what a coin is made of besides weighing.

There is an XRF test but it typically only reads the surface metal and not the core. There is also a specific gravity test, something I have never had to perform on a coin but is also another test besides weight. Also, you would have to crack the cent out of the holder for these tests to be performed. Seeing as you are dead set this is a transitional cent, then I would crack it out and have whatever tests performed until you finally accept what answers are given. I would then also have it reweighed by a certified jewelers scale that is not yours and is known to be calibrated correctly. While you seem to be dismissing weight altogether, I will say its weight is the main indication that this is NOT a bronze transitional cent which, once again, would weigh between 3.05g-3.08g. This given weight of the bronze transitional cent is not open to "almost close" or "in the area of".