My Find of the Day 2 2

[J P M]

Hello all, I was roll hunting today and found this cull piece. Through the years I have seen quit a few of these1959 dark nickels also termed as Black Beauty's. Most are not and just environmental damage. This one is a maybe? Just for fun, I thought I would post some shots and get some others opinions to see if it looks like one.  

[cobymordet]

I have never heard of a Black Beauty Nickel, but after a brief briefing and this pic I found, they look quite attractive.  In answer to your question, regarding your coin, I imagine that it may be hard to verify unless the coin was in AU/UNC shape to eliminate potential "environmental meddling".  I think the coin would be darker than your OBV, like the REV.  (Although pictures don't get justice through a computer, in hand it may be darker.

[“”]

There are several black beauty nickels listed on EBay that are certified as such by ANACS.

 

[J P M]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:59 PM, Simple Collector said:

There are several black beauty nickels listed on EBay that are certified as such by ANACS.

 

Yes I see a lot of stuff from ANACS even at other sites. .

 

On 10/19/2023 at 12:31 PM, cobymordet said:

I have never heard of a Black Beauty Nickel, but after a brief briefing and this pic I found, they look quite attractive.  In answer to your question, regarding your coin, I imagine that it may be hard to verify unless the coin was in AU/UNC shape to eliminate potential "environmental meddling".  I think the coin would be darker than your OBV, like the REV.  (Although pictures don't get justice through a computer, in hand it may be darker.

That 58 is almost MS. Yes that is why I said it was a Cull. We may never know for sure. I like to post stuff like this to get the opinions of other fellow collectors who get tired of looking at dryer and parking lot coins. 

[Mike Meenderink]

I have an ANACS  certified 1959 Black Beauty Nickel. Ill post a photo from my home desk pic is not on my phone. This coin IMO is an authentic Black Beauty due to its particular color and mottled look of the coloring. Send it in to grade it just to get the designation. There are a few out there but not enough. Nice find.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Sandon]

   Whatever this coin looked like when it was "new", I think that its current darkness, as well as the greenish substance on much of the surface, is the result of corrosion. I'd spend it.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Sandon

[J P M]

On 10/19/2023 at 4:32 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

I have an ANACS  certified 1959 Black Beauty Nickel. Ill post a photo from my home desk pic is not on my phone. This coin IMO is an authentic Black Beauty due to its particular color and mottled look of the coloring. Send it in to grade it just to get the designation. There are a few out there but not enough. Nice find.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Mike . Due to its condition it is a coin that would be last on my list to send in .. LoL  

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by J P M

[J P M]

On 10/19/2023 at 4:39 PM, Sandon said:

   Whatever this coin looked like when it was "new", I think that its current darkness, as well as the greenish substance on much of the surface, is the result of corrosion. I'd spend it.

That shot was with a USB scope.  It is not that green looking . Here is a different shot. It is still not worth grading  but it looks better with a normal shot.

[cobymordet]

Much better pics, I would agree that it looks pretty black, and a beauty at that.

[EagleRJO]

On 10/19/2023 at 4:07 PM, J P M said:

I like to post stuff like this to get the opinions of other fellow collectors who get tired of looking at dryer and parking lot coins.

Amen!  

On 10/19/2023 at 4:56 PM, J P M said:

That shot was with a USB scope.  It is not that green looking . Here is a different shot.

From just the original pics with the appearance and greenish tint, particularly on the obverse, I was going to say probably no dice on the "Black Beauty".  But the subsequent pics definitely have that look.

Also, older ANACS slabbed ones state "Improperly Annealed" (heat treatment) on the label, but more recent ANACS slabbed ones like the attached state "Improper Alloy Mix".  Did the reasoning on what caused the dark discoloration change at some point?

On 10/19/2023 at 4:46 PM, J P M said:

Due to its condition it is a coin that would be last on my list to send in

Even in mint state why in the world would you even be thinking about submitting one to a TPG when you can easily scoop a readily available ANACS slabbed MS graded "Black Beauty" nickel for just $20 to $30 per sold ebay listings?  Like the attached from a current ebay listing, out of about 2 dozen for sale.

[J P M]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:51 PM, EagleRJO said:

Even in mint state why in the world would you even be thinking about submitting one to a TPG when you can easily scoop a readily available

I have been saying this for years. There are plenty of nice coins out there all ready enslaved other people have spent good money on that I can buy for a minimal price.

 

On 10/19/2023 at 5:05 PM, cobymordet said:

Much better pics, I would agree that it looks pretty black, and a beauty at that.

I also wanted to say sorry everyone about those USB shots. I posted those this morning before I left for the day . I just got back a while ago and did not realize how unrealistic the LED lighting shots were until you all said something. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:51 PM, EagleRJO said:

 

If we were to consider the composition of so-called "war nickels," maybe, just maybe,  an "improper alloy mix" would begin to make sense... 56% copper, 35% silver and 9% manganese.  To my knowledge, none would impart a blackened hue no matter how rejiggered. But the usual 75% copper and 25% nickel mix?  Sorry, I may not be from Missouri, but you're gonna have to Show Me!  I challenge anyone on the Forum well versed in strength, corrosion-resistance, hardening, weldability and castability to show me with a preponderance of the evidence exactly how such a phenomenon could plausibly be caused to have occurred. Does my impertinent challenge extend to grading services as well?  In a manner of speaking, a resounding Yes!  Have other TPGS similarly certified such genetic anomalies. I'd like to hear what other like-minded doubting Thomas's and nattering nabobs of negativism have to say about this. Resident mad scientists and discredited naysayers, as always, are welcome, too. 

[cobymordet]

got this off coin talk - ngc graded one, if it is legit.

1959 Jefferson Nickel Improperly Annealed Black Beauty HOW The distinctive and unique look of a black beauty comes from an improperly handled annealing process.

Annealing is the process of heating up the planchet for it to be ready to be struck. The planchets are heated in a large furnace warmed by gas heaters to "relax" the metal alloy for the striking process. They are then rinsed to remove tarnish, which gives the nickel planchets the familiar shiny "BU" (Brilliant Uncirculated) finish.

HISTORY

At the Philadelphia Mint in 1959, a full batch of nickel planchets were left in the furnace too long during the annealing process. As a result the unique black appearance was created. In 1959 Baltmore used more nickels than any other city. Baltimore city received seven 15-ton shipments of nickels a year. There were 670 bags of nickels in each tractor-trailer load that backed up to the rear of the Federal Reserve Bank in Baltimore.

How To Tell Them

Note that color of these is not actually black but more of a dark gray. The color must run all the way through the coin/planchet look at edges Check any slight gouges, or nicks to make sure its not just another environmental damaged coin. They should also have luster. The ones with red are acid/envornmental/dugged/damaged coins often confused with Improperly Annealed ones.

(Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1959-jefferson-nickel-improperly-annealed-black-beauty.250868/)

[cobymordet]

This is possibly a similar situation, color is not as dark it seems and it was graded by pcgs:

[EagleRJO]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:08 PM, J P M said:

I have been saying this for years. There are plenty of nice coins out there all ready enslaved ...

I know.  I must have misread your above comments (thinking you were saying it would be on your list to submit if in better condition) now that I read that again.

On 10/19/2023 at 10:32 PM, cobymordet said:

... in 1959, a full batch of nickel planchets were left in the furnace too long during the annealing process. As a result the unique black appearance was created.

I don't know if that's the whole story as I don't think the planchets would become so darkened from just too long a heat exposure, and it wouldn't be exposed to flames or appear as heat damage discoloration would.

I had read about this being debunked also, and the description changing.  Possibly some kind of alloy mixing issue combined with the heat, and maybe why ANACS changed the error to "Improper Alloy Mix".

That PCG$ label looks pretty old too, so I don't know if they also updated the error description.  But I don't think the term really is critical, as I am just spitballing and as long as it's clear what the end result appearance is.  

Edited October 20, 2023 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

I would say if the rim looks just like the rest of the coin, you may have stumbled upon one. If it was an alloy mix issue, the rim also would have the same appearance. Getting that environmental damage will also affect the rim, I think you have collected nickels long enough to know the difference between an alloy mixture issue and environmental damage @J P M.

Neat find!

[J P M]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:51 AM, powermad5000 said:

I would say if the rim looks just like the rest of the coin, you may have stumbled upon one. If it was an alloy mix issue, the rim also would have the same appearance. Getting that environmental damage will also affect the rim, I think you have collected nickels long enough to know the difference between an alloy mixture issue and environmental damage @J P M.

Neat find!

Yes the rim is the same color you can see that is the first photo . Even where it is worn on the obverse, reverse and the edge it is still darker than normal. Here is another shot without the USB scope. I think this one will go in the coin tin with the other oddballs.

Edited October 20, 2023 by J P M