PL / DMPL Coins only...Post your PL / DMPL designated coins here. 1 1

[Mike Meenderink]

PL / DMPL designations are awarded to business strike coins that exhibit a more reflective surface than other coins struck in the same run. Details and strike are often superior to other coins in the same run as well.  Most of these coins have a separate dedicated population at NGC. These coins were struck from the earliest new die stages. The crisp devices and smooth reflective fields suggest slightly more stamp pressure was applied to these coins as well as the planchets being of higher quality. Top pop 4/0 one of 4 known.                     trike ch            . Cheers!

Edited October 4, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[rrantique]

[rrantique]

[RWB]

On 10/3/2023 at 11:07 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

PL / DMPL designations are awarded to business strike coins that exhibit a more reflective surface than other coins struck in the same run. Details and strike are often superior to other coins in the same run as well.  Most of these coins have a separate dedicated population at NGC. These coins were struck from the earliest new die stages. The crisp devices and smooth reflective fields suggest slightly more stamp pressure was applied to these coins as well as the planchets being of higher quality.

Bologna!

PL coins are struck from dies that have been polished to remove surface damage such as cracks minor chips, etc. New dies have a satin-like surface created by the final acid dip used after hardening & tempering. The coins are struck on normal planchets and under completely normal conditions.

"Proof-like" or "deep mirror proof-like" are arbitrary opinions of how well defined ("sharp") images reflected from a coin's fields are when compared to a typical household mirror. "PL" is not part of a coin's grade - it is merely a descriptive term.

[ldhair]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:07 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

PL / DMPL designations are awarded to business strike coins that exhibit a more reflective surface than other coins struck in the same run. Details and strike are often superior to other coins in the same run as well.  Most of these coins have a separate dedicated population at NGC. These coins were struck from the earliest new die stages. The crisp devices and smooth reflective fields suggest slightly more stamp pressure was applied to these coins as well as the planchets being of higher quality. Top pop 4/0 one of 4 known.                     trike ch            . Cheers!

I'm also having a hard time agreeing with much of this. Are these your words or a copy and paste from somewhere else?

[Mike Meenderink]

This will really upset you guys but you don't know everything about coins. A PL designation is called a strike character and IS part of the grade of the coin. As for your objections to my explanation of how these coins are made I agree some are from polished dies but most are from early runs that were a bit heavy with the pressure.  As for the surface no PL coin has a true proof strike since they were not struck with proof dies. The more reflective the field the more polished the die. But... when a coin with surfaces such as mine that exhibits smooth flow lines that you can still see and high reflectivity its a coin from an early die stage and a pretty nice planchet. Don't tell me you think all planchets are equal..? bahahahah

[MorganMan]

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by MorganMan

[J P M]

I normally look for MS 66 and up. I like this coin because it is a low MS64  and still got the PL designation. 

[RWB]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:04 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

This will really upset you guys but you don't know everything about coins. A PL designation is called a strike character and IS part of the grade of the coin. As for your objections to my explanation of how these coins are made I agree some are from polished dies but most are from early runs that were a bit heavy with the pressure.  As for the surface no PL coin has a true proof strike since they were not struck with proof dies. The more reflective the field the more polished the die. But... when a coin with surfaces such as mine that exhibits smooth flow lines that you can still see and high reflectivity its a coin from an early die stage and a pretty nice planchet. Don't tell me you think all planchets are equal..? bahahahah

Members here seem to know and understand a lot more that you do. Your ignorance shows only how little you have learned. Merely parroting stuff that was assumed 50 years ago....much of which was completely wrong...is a disservice to yourself and others.

As for this further bit: "A PL designation is called a strike character and IS part of the grade of the coin." No. Field reflectivity ("PL" etc.) is part of the die not how a planchet is struck. It's not part of the grade, but it can have a negative visual effect because a reflective surface does not hide minor marks and abrasion as well as frost/luster does.

Please buy some modern coin books and read them.

Edited October 6, 2023 by RWB

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:43 AM, RWB said:

Members here seem to know and understand a lot more that you do. Your ignorance shows only how little you have learned. Merely parroting stuff that was assumed 50 years ago....much of which was completely wrong...is a disservice to yourself and others.

As for this further bit: "A PL designation is called a strike character and IS part of the grade of the coin." No. Field reflectivity ("PL" etc.) is part of the die not how a planchet is struck. It's not part of the grade, but it can have a negative visual effect because a reflective surface does not hide minor marks and abrasion as well as frost/luster does.

Please buy some modern coin books and read them.

You sir are 100% wrong as with many other things you say. I have no faith in ANYTHING you say so there's that...

Edited October 7, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[J P M]

I like many collectors use the Redbook for a reference among other sites like NGC and PCGS, Coin World and such . I am just a old construction worker, biker ,musician I am kinda gruff around the edges and don't always explain things very well and I make mistakes all the time . The problem is Mike,  when we explain something about a coin we have to be carful on what we say. Especially for the new people.  This site even though most of us are only collectors our comments are available world wide. If we say something out of context we better have something to back it up. That's all I wanted to say and here is the Redbook page on proofs and another PL. to keep things rolling.     

[RWB]

On 10/7/2023 at 12:18 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

I have no faith in ANYTHING you say so there's that...

Thank you for the compliment! 

Mickie, your devotion to ignorance is outstanding! It is an honor to be excluded from your faith.

Edited October 7, 2023 by RWB

[numisport]

Here's a couple fully prooflike Jeffersons although one not designated so.  

A closer look would reveal die scratches and other problems leading to both obverse and reverse dies being polished. 

As for polished planchets, in 1972 I doubt it and certainly not during wartime mint production except for proofs. Note that the 43-S is deeper prooflike than the 42-S yet not designated so. 

Just shows to go ya !

Edited October 7, 2023 by numisport

[VKurtB]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:24 PM, RWB said:

Thank you for the compliment! 

Mickie, your devotion to ignorance is outstanding! It is an honor to be excluded from your faith.

“Devotion to ignorance.” Damn, I wish I had thought of that first. I do recognize a high degree of intersection between “Mike-isms” and the sorts of misinformation that used to be slung about in this hobby decades ago.

I find myself waxing curious about whether Mikey-poo has ever attended a formal course given recently, or attended a talk at a coin convention. Now, are ALL such talk-givers in full agreement? No, of course not. But virtually ALL have moved on from 1970’s - 1980’s commonly held inaccuracies. 
 

What IS true is that the two grading firms (and there are only two that count, maybe three soon) would LIKE to make the PL or DMPL designation part of the grade. If that’s okay with you, then do nothing and capitulate. If it’s not okay with you, you need to push back actively against it.

Edited October 8, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

If it wasn't part of the grade then it would not be on the holder card in clearly written English letters.. PL. In your assertions that the strike character of a coin is not part of the grade diminishes all coins graded PF, PFCAM,PFUC,SP, ETC ETC. If you truly think the Sheldon number and Adjectival grade (MS AU etc.)is the only "grade statement or assignment" then a proof coin must be the same to you as a business strike. Since strike character is not part of your grading. 

[zadok]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:28 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

If it wasn't part of the grade then it would not be on the holder card in clearly written English letters.. PL. In your assertions that the strike character of a coin is not part of the grade diminishes all coins graded PF, PFCAM,PFUC,SP, ETC ETC. If you truly think the Sheldon number and Adjectival grade (MS AU etc.)is the only "grade statement or assignment" then a proof coin must be the same to you as a business strike. Since strike character is not part of your grading. 

...incorrect assumption...NGC's official position is that strike characters r not part of the grade of a coin, they r categorized as modifiers of the grade; PL,PLCAM,PLUC r the same as RB,BR,RD...the actual letters, PL,RB,UC etc r called designators or designations...

[Mike Meenderink]

Ahhh I see so ...would the coin be accurately graded without these designations? NO so it is part of the grade simple logic. No way around it.

On 10/9/2023 at 5:25 PM, zadok said:

...incorrect assumption...NGC's official position is that strike characters r not part of the grade of a coin, they r categorized as modifiers of the grade; PL,PLCAM,PLUC r the same as RB,BR,RD...the actual letters, PL,RB,UC etc r called designators or designations...

 

[zadok]

On 10/9/2023 at 9:22 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Ahhh I see so ...would the coin be accurately graded without these designations? NO so it is part of the grade simple logic. No way around it.

 

...this discussion is over, ur personal assumptions r just that ur personal opinions n  have no merit nor meaningful input to the subject, n can be disregarded...NGC's determination clearly addresses the issue, end of story....

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:48 AM, zadok said:

...this discussion is over, ur personal assumptions r just that ur personal opinions n  have no merit nor meaningful input to the subject, n can be disregarded...NGC's determination clearly addresses the issue, end of story....

NEWSFLASH ALL GRADING IS PERSONAL ASSUMTION...GRADING IS SUBJECTIVE >>> ITS ALL A MATTER OF OPINION LOL ...

[Mike Meenderink]

In another matter I never asked anyone to breakdown or explain a PL coin . I just asked people to post them here. But like always a few know it all's want to hijack the thread to prove how smart they are. Laughable.

[powermad5000]

It is because of what you said when you opened the thread. Some of it correct, some not. Once the press pressure is adjusted properly to begin a run of business strikes, it is not readjusted to specifically produce PL or DPL coins. Proof is a method of manufacture, prooflike is a grade designation.

• Proofs – A Proof coin is made with a highly polished planchet struck by a specially prepared die.
  • Some parts of the die may be sandblasted to impart a frosted finish on the devices to create a cameo contrast against the mirror-like fields or, alternatively, frosted fields and reflective devices.
  • Proof coins are typically struck at least twice to ensure complete impression of all details. Among these details are squared-off rims – a hallmark of most proof coins.
  • Furthermore, a significant part of producing Proofs is not just the strike but also the special care that goes into handling proof coinage at the mint. The blanks are carefully fed into the presses and transferred from station to station with gloved hands.
• Prooflike coins – Prooflike coins are usually the result of a particularly nice, brilliant planchet being struck by a new or recently polished dies. However, that is where any seeming similarities in the minting process end.
  • A Prooflike coin will generally not be rendered any further special care during the minting process.
  • Unlike Proofs, a circulation strike that offers Prooflike brilliance will have only been struck once.
  • Furthermore, the business-strike coin with Prooflike radiance will generally not have been afforded any special handling during the minting process.

[rrantique]

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/10/2023 at 10:10 AM, powermad5000 said:

Prooflike coins – Prooflike coins are usually the result of a particularly nice, brilliant planchet being struck by a new or recently polished dies. However, that is where any seeming similarities in the minting process end.

Thanks for posting and proving my point.

[Mike Meenderink]

Now everyone else please stop with your bull .

[ldhair]

The members here are quick and correct in pointing out false information. That's the way it should be. Those that read this thread in the future will have a better understanding of the topic. 

[powermad5000]

Smh   some only read the parts, not the whole.