bstrauss3 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 When NGCX was introduced, there were a flurry of items for sale on eBay. I looked recently and there were only a few hundred listings. Did the market vote No? GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Interesting you should bring this up as I was just thinking about that earlier today. If the market has yet to react, which appears to be the case, I would blame lack of promotion. It's one thing to introduce a product, but considering the novelty of this one, I would have anticipated a greater response. Maybe that will take time. Fair question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstrauss3 Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 Talked to a medium-sized dealer at the show yesterday (Grapevine). He said "poof". Now he doesn't sell a lot of bullion coins, but NOBODY at the show (Grapevine, a 70-table regional) had any for sale either. He also said that opinions on the CACG slab are running 60% negative, 40% positive. Common objections are size and it doesn't fit in existing boxes. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) For several decades there have been coin dealers who have had the notion that they could get collectors of other things (art, antiques, baseball cards, comic books, etc.) to collect coins if they just found the "right way" to market them to these collectors. Because some of these items are graded on a ten-point scale, they tried doing this for coins. What they don't understand is that what a person likes to collect is an individual taste. One is either interested in coins--or certain coins--or isn't. Now, some people may be stuck with modern coins in holders with grades that are unintelligible to most collectors. The product might have been more acceptable if the grade were expressed in adjectival terms and "Sheldon scale" numbers as well as the NGCX scale. Edited September 23, 2023 by Sandon powermad5000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Colonial Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 On 9/23/2023 at 7:07 PM, Sandon said: What they don't understand is that what a person likes to collect is an individual taste. One is either interested in coins--or certain coins--or isn't. This marketing effort is targeted to NCLT where the predominant buyer spending any meaningful money seems to be predominantly "stacking" or buying it for other financial reasons. They aren't hobbyist collectors since there isn't any substance to this collecting. Anyone with the money can buy any of these coins or sets in as little as one day, except maybe with some arbitrary holder and label combination. Unlike circulating coinage, there isn't even any variation in appearance for something like 98% or 99% of it either. It's the ultimate widget buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 I have no clue (nor do I care much) as to how the market is digesting this NCGX stuff. I am not and will never be a collector of NCLT so I pay it no mind. VKurtB and Walkerfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 If you like the scale of grades for sports cards or comics, buy sports cards or comics. All the “pretty boy suits” working for a venture capital firm you can assemble can’t make these hobbies combine. Stop it! It was a dumb idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhair Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 I'm not a fan of these but I want one for my slab collection. If there are a few hundred already on Ebay, it looks like some like them. It would be interesting to know how many NGC has graded with this new type of grading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 I thought the NGCX coins were a bit high priced for my pocket... But I am a cheap S,O,G anyway. Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bstrauss3 Posted September 24, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2023 On 9/24/2023 at 4:57 AM, ldhair said: I'm not a fan of these but I want one for my slab collection. If there are a few hundred already on Ebay, it looks like some like them. It would be interesting to know how many NGC has graded with this new type of grading. I found a 9.6 (MS-67) ASE off fleaBay for my slab collection. One and done. On 9/24/2023 at 4:28 AM, VKurtB said: If you like the scale of grades for sports cards or comics, buy sports cards or comics. All the “pretty boy suits” working for a venture capital firm you can assemble can’t make these hobbies combine. Stop it! It was a dumb idea. OMG Kurt said something I agree with... can anyone check the forecast for H E double Hockey Sticks for me? I forgot my ice skates... Coinbuf, USAuPzlBxBob and Henri Charriere 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) On 9/24/2023 at 4:39 PM, bstrauss3 said: I found a 9.6 (MS-67) ASE off fleaBay for my slab collection. One and done.... I fail to see why a 9.6 on the Richter Scale would not translate into a 9.7 in the Wonderful World of TPGS, but it wouldn't make a difference to me anyway. Competitive sets hew to homogenization. Now member bstrauss3 brings up a critical point: I was tempted to acquire a coin I needed in a GENI holder (overseas) but objected to three things: 1. The holder's awkward octagonal shape is unnecessarily large and sports four miniscule prongs which appear to be wire-like in their appearance suggesting a potential threat to a coin's preservation; 2. Identifying information is printed along its edges; 3. If its introduction was meant to compete with its far better known competitors, NGC, et al. the gimmick failed miserably. As a practical matter whether on the East or West coasts, decapsulation for inclusion in a world gold Set Registry would be mandatory and with a dearth of statistics on cross-over successes or failures, any expenditure of a "Cleveland," for me, is going to have to be a sure shot. The market will be the final arbiter as to whether the "GENI" or the "X" are Mustangs, or Edsels. Edited September 25, 2023 by Henri Charriere Minor die-polishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 ...or Yugos ! GoldFinger1969 and Henri Charriere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 On 9/23/2023 at 6:23 PM, Coinbuf said: I have no clue (nor do I care much) as to how the market is digesting this NCGX stuff. I am not and will never be a collector of NCLT so I pay it no mind. Good news for you, they just announced expanding it into Morgan & Peace dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) On 9/28/2023 at 3:06 PM, gmarguli said: Good news for you, they just announced expanding it into Morgan & Peace dollars. As I recall the original press release said these NGCX products are limited to 1982 and later. Edited September 29, 2023 by Coinbuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 On 9/28/2023 at 6:51 PM, Coinbuf said: As I recall the original press release said these NGCX products are limited to 1982 and later. It was originally, but now has expanded to Morgan and Peace dollars. I've paid zero attention to this but maybe it's taking off. Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 On 9/29/2023 at 6:24 AM, Fenntucky Mike said: It was originally, but now has expanded to Morgan and Peace dollars. I've paid zero attention to this but maybe it's taking off. ...i understand baseball cards 1 to 10 n even bo derek but coins cant get my head around yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Neophyte Numismatist Posted September 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) This has nothing to do with assisting collectors in getting into the hobby, this is all about revenue generation. This year has been unprecedented in the amount of rubbish product that has been released... Layering multiple grading scales, stickers, etc... only makes collecting more confusing to the new collector. As a new collector I will say, I do not need the help of new TPG products to be successful. I will never tell people what they should or shouldn't buy. Obviously, there is a market for this that I do not understand. But, if new collectors are the demographic - they completely missed the mark by adding more complexity and nuance. Edited September 29, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist RWB, Sandon and Fenntucky Mike 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 I assume that the Morgan and Peace dollars that will be graded under the NGCX scale will be mostly the very common dates in common grades that are usually hawked by mass marketers. Such coins usually grade no better than MS 63 or 64, which translates to 9.3 or 9.4 on the NGCX scale. I think that they're going to have difficulty with this, because "collectors" of such mass marketed items seek the "perfect 10", which is common among modern bullion coins and collectors' issues (equivalent of a "Sheldon" "70") but non-existent among 1878-1935 Morgan and Peace dollars. Coins in NGCX holders have little or no appeal to serious coin collectors and numismatists. So far, they can't even be included in the NGC Registry. I regularly attend several smaller and one major coin show and have yet to see a single coin in an NGCX holder. As I previously stated, it would have made sense for the NGCX labels to have included the adjectival and Sheldon scale grades as well as the NGCX equivalents. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 I think most of us agree that NGCX is not our cup of T. This is one subject where I do not agree with my T shirt. Henri Charriere and The Neophyte Numismatist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gmarguli Posted September 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 29, 2023 On 9/29/2023 at 3:24 AM, Fenntucky Mike said: It was originally, but now has expanded to Morgan and Peace dollars. I've paid zero attention to this but maybe it's taking off. Looking at eBay, it appears that a vast majority of NGCX coins are being sold by a single seller who has nearly half a million feedback. The prices he is getting on most of them could not support him slabbing them even at the normal bulk submission rates. He must be getting a super deal on grading to help push this stuff into the marketplace. Other than him, no real sales activity. It was a stupid and confusing idea to begin with, that I suspect was pushed by the VC overlords and not someone with actual knowledge of coins. It needs to end, not be expanded. Sandon, World Colonial, zadok and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 On 9/29/2023 at 3:24 AM, Fenntucky Mike said: It was originally, but now has expanded to Morgan and Peace dollars. I've paid zero attention to this but maybe it's taking off. I have not seen any real buzz about this, at least not enough to think this has taken off. Much like Greg said above this seems like a corporate stuffed shirt idea, and as often happens the corporate greed attempts to push the program harder rather than end the project, and then there is the issue of the stuffed shirt needing to justify his program/salary so the program must be shoved harder for that too. Honestly it still all means nothing to me, this NGCX scale is just the sheldon MS scale redefined, confusing and unnecessary, but hardly innovative. Sandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 On 9/29/2023 at 1:40 PM, Coinbuf said: ...and then there is the issue of the stuffed shirt needing to justify his program/salary so the program must be shoved harder for that too. Sounds like you have worked in product at a major corporation . What you say transcends every SIC! Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 9/21/2023 at 6:25 PM, bstrauss3 said: I looked recently and there were only a few hundred listings. ONLY a few HUNDRED ? That seems alot to me, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 9/30/2023 at 11:55 PM, GoldFinger1969 said: ONLY a few HUNDRED ? That seems alot to me, no ? Every innovative endeavor requires time (and advertising to develop.) The market will decide the fate of this upstart. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstrauss3 Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 There are over 280,000 NGC listings right now. As pointed out upthread they are accepting - still only from a small # of bulk submitters - classic coins. To Henri's comment, yes, but if you squander the initial publicity window, that's something you never get back. Henri Charriere and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 9/21/2023 at 7:12 PM, Henri Charriere said: If the market has yet to react, which appears to be the case, I would blame lack of promotion. Where would/should they be promoting the coins, in your opinion ? Online...print....where coin collectors go or where non-collectors go ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) On 9/29/2023 at 1:40 PM, Coinbuf said: Honestly it still all means nothing to me, this NGCX scale is just the sheldon MS scale redefined, confusing and unnecessary, but hardly innovative. They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential buyers of classic/modern coins but they were confused by the grading scale. Honestly, I think the hurdles to learning about coins are far less than those about buying a house, learning about real estate, investing in the financial markets, etc. Hey, maybe NGC saw a niche opportunity and went for it. Dunno...... Edited October 1, 2023 by GoldFinger1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 9/29/2023 at 6:22 PM, gmarguli said: Looking at eBay, it appears that a vast majority of NGCX coins are being sold by a single seller who has nearly half a million feedback. The prices he is getting on most of them could not support him slabbing them even at the normal bulk submission rates. He must be getting a super deal on grading to help push this stuff into the marketplace. Other than him, no real sales activity. It was a stupid and confusing idea to begin with, that I suspect was pushed by the VC overlords and not someone with actual knowledge of coins. It needs to end, not be expanded. DING! DING! DING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 10/1/2023 at 4:19 PM, GoldFinger1969 said: They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential buyers of classic/modern coins but they were confused by the grading scale. Honestly, I think the hurdles to learning about coins are far less than those about buying a house, learning about real estate, investing in the financial markets, etc. Hey, maybe NGC saw a niche opportunity and went for it. Dunno...... Arketers-may are umb-day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 10/1/2023 at 12:36 PM, VKurtB said: Arketers-may are umb-day. ...sounds like u r at the distillery, perhaps a bit less sampling?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
