1921p Morgan - thoughts on grade of this coin? 1 1

[cobymordet]

This is a beautiful coin that I think can hit MS-63 or better, but my grading skills are lacking.  I am curious what more experienced eyes would say. . .

[cobymordet]

[cobymordet]

[Mr.Bill347]

That’s a beauty Coby! Nice find!

[Sandon]

   Unfortunately, your 1921 Morgan dollar has uncirculated details but has been harshly "cleaned" or "whizzed". Note the unnatural sheen, the parallel hairline scratches across Liberty's face and neck in your lower obverse photo, and the different appearance in the areas around the devices that were protected from the wire brush or other abrasive surface used to accomplish the "cleaning". It would only be worth silver value. 

   I recommend that you go to a coin show or other venue where you can compare this coin with uncleaned, third-party or otherwise professionally graded uncirculated Morgan dollars. You can't see everything from photos, but here are photos of a 1921 Morgan dollar that NGC graded MS 64:

   Photos courtesy of Stacks Bowers Galleries.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Sandon
added photo credit

[JT2]

like @Sandon said this would be nothing more that melt value due to its harsh cleaning.  

[cobymordet]

Thanks for the analysis, I was apprehensive about that possibility, but I prefer living in LaLa-land where unicorns and rainbows dance to gangnam style 24/7.  Reality really does bite! - lol!

[Just Bob]

Ouch! Somebody abused that poor coin terribly! 

[Mr.Bill347]

What I was saying , it’s difficult to find a decent 1921 D Morgan 

[Coinbuf]

On 9/6/2023 at 2:47 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

What I was saying , it’s difficult to find a decent 1921 D Morgan 

That is all fine, except that this thread is about a 1921P Morgan .   For someone just stacking silver or who likes shiny things then this coin can fit the bill, but anyone that wants a 1921P Morgan for any numismatic value or purpose would (should) avoid this badly whizzed coin.

[powermad5000]

The hairlines were readily evident on this coin as well as the coloration changes near the devices where the cleaning could not reach. Details wise it probably would have graded MS 63 or MS 64 but the harsh cleaning/whizzing also affected the sharpness of the details. It is now an Uncirculated details coin unfortunately worth near melt. It's a shame. I bet it was a really nice coin before someone totally ruined it.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:09 AM, cobymordet said:

This is a beautiful coin that I think can hit MS-63 or better ...

On 9/6/2023 at 11:04 AM, cobymordet said:

Thanks for the analysis, I was apprehensive about that possibility ... Reality really does bite!

Cleaned coins can sometimes be difficult for newer collectors to pick up, but after you have seen enough of the good and the bad as Sandon suggested the light bulb should come on.

Also check out PCG$ CoinFacts which have certified examples of various grades for each coin, as well as an excellent custom registry set @Sandon put together with examples of cleaned coins with descriptions linked below.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts

https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/wcm/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=31632

If you recently purchased this coin you might have a shot at returning it if it wasn't listed as cleaned.  But it's not a valuable coin, so you could save some postage by just hanging onto it as a silver cull coin or as a reminder.

[powermad5000]

Here is one of my several 1921 (P) Morgans to give a quick comparison to (sorry I don't take many reverse photos) of the obverse. The same thing applies to both sides of the coin though. It's not the greatest pic but you can see the evenness of the luster across the whole surface without the change of color around the lettering, date and devices. And note there is an absence of any hairlines.

 

[RWB]

Sorry about the coin -- Scrubbed and polished into junk. No collector value. Worth only silver.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/7/2023 at 12:23 AM, powermad5000 said:

... one of my several 1921 (P) Morgans

What, you couldn't make up your mind which 1921 (P) to keep with them all suffering from weak strikes?  

[powermad5000]

On 9/7/2023 at 3:56 PM, EagleRJO said:

What, you couldn't make up your mind which 1921 (P) to keep with them all suffering from weak strikes?

I know your feelings on the 1921's and it probably would have been in the best interest of the Mint to not have made any and just have rolled out all Peace Dollars instead. But they were made, and they are still part of a whole set of Morgans, so I do have several better graded ones and some VAMs of the 1921 (P,D,S). Any more than I have some really nice CC's and O's. When it comes to putting a full set together, I cannot allow my personal feelings or dislikes about a particular coin come into play.

I am still not a fan of the Lincoln Shield cents, but I have some graded pretty good.

I would still rather own a 1921 Morgan instead of these modern produced Morgan knock offs like the 2023.

Edited September 7, 2023 by powermad5000

[EagleRJO]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:17 PM, powermad5000 said:

I know your feelings on the 1921's and it probably would have been in the best interest of the Mint to not have made any and just have rolled out all Peace Dollars instead.

And here I thought I was doing a good job of hiding my general dislike for the 1921 Morgans,  because the mint just had to crank up the coining presses to strike a total of about 85 million coins for that year from the three mints with limited equipment, and had to consistently overuse the working dies.   

They were a little hard to fully strike up the devices anyway due to the design and speed, resulting in most being poorly struck even though they used shallower relief dies.  They were more concerned with the quantity even if it resulted in inferior coins.

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/9742/USA-Coin-Album-morgan-silver-dollars-1921/#:~:text=Some differences are evident when the 1921 dollars,notable for often being less than fully struck.

Nevertheless, I have all the 1921 P, D & S Morgans in raw BU grade, as well as all the 2021 and 2023 proof Morgans from each of the mints and privy marks in OGP for my complete circulated Morgan set.  But I only have one of each for the collection.   

Edited September 8, 2023 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

On 9/7/2023 at 7:36 PM, EagleRJO said:

And here I thought I was doing a good job of hiding my general dislike for the 1921 Morgans

I have to say you did not do a good job on this (). There have been several replies you made in other threads up to months back from this point in which you expressed your disdain for the 1921 Morgans.

[Jason Abshier]

@cobymordet that morgan will not be a MS63 its badly cleaned notice on her cheek you see all lines going same direction harshly cleaned also luster is dullish as well anyone who been collecting for a lot years can spot that coin miles away with a naked eye it been cleaned badly or whizzed only worth melt value now