Krys.m Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Is this a die or die break error at the top? “We trust” is stamped on rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 It looks like a normal cent with a bit of wear. Hoghead515 and rrantique 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Very slightly off center. Not unusual and not worth anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Welcome to the NGC chat board. It is entirely normal for a cent dated from the early to mid-1960s through 1968 to have the obverse lettering appear to touch the rim. The master die for the obverse of Lincoln cents had been in use since 1919. Over the years Lincoln's portrait and the lettering had spread out as the die was used to make numerous "hubs" that in turn were used to make working dies that struck coins. The problem got worse every year. The master die was finally replaced for 1969 coinage and has been replaced several times since. This 1964-D Lincoln cent may have also been struck ever so slightly off center or from a slightly misaligned obverse die. Neither circumstance would give the coin any premium value. In the future, please post cropped photos of both sides of coins about which you have questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 For these Lincoln cents, this is well within mint tolerances and, no, the die was not broken. Most likely the die was slightly misaligned before your coin was struck. I have several Roosevelt dimes in which either the W or in one case the entire word WE was actually cut off due to a misaligned die and those are also not errors and are within mint tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 On 7/3/2023 at 7:01 PM, Krys.m said: “We trust” is stamped on rim. On 7/4/2023 at 2:21 AM, powermad5000 said: For these Lincoln cents, this is well within mint tolerances ... Is there a mint tolerance on the location of features such as the lettering on coins? I don't recall ever coming across such a tolerance. On 7/4/2023 at 2:21 AM, powermad5000 said: ... in one case the entire word WE was actually cut off due to a misaligned die and those are also not errors and are within mint tolerance. Seems like if certain features were actually missing due to misaligned dies that it would be a mint error, as by law coins are required to have certain features, like "In God We Trust" (31 USC 5112 ?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I submitted the dime missing the word 'WE' to NGC and it came back regular graded with the explanation of "Too Minor", so I guess that falls under mint tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) On 7/7/2023 at 12:20 AM, powermad5000 said: I submitted the dime missing the word 'WE' to NGC and it came back regular graded with the explanation of "Too Minor", so I guess that falls under mint tolerance. There is a difference between a mint tolerance and what NGC will attribute as an error. For example, I understand the mint tolerance for die rotation is 5 degrees (e.g. Coin World Almanac, 8th Edition), but NGC will only attribute a rotation of 15 degrees or greater ... https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/7765/learn-grading-mint-errors-part-1/ Likewise, a die alignment that results in the word "WE" missing on a coin to me is an error, but apparently not significant enough of a misalignment for NGC to attribute that as an error, which they likely just consider a "minor error" (along with any die rotation from 5 degrees up to 15 degrees). I did a search as well as checked the references I have, and was unable to find what the mint uses as a tolerance for misalignment. I also didn't see any indication of the magnitude of a misalignment that NGC will attribute. The only thing I could find was an indication in the Red Book that there is no premium for a coin misaligned by less than 10%. I'm curious if anyone knows what the mint tolerance is for a misaligned die or at what point NGC will attribute that error. Edited July 16 by EagleRJO powermad5000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) On 7/15/2023 at 6:20 PM, EagleRJO said: the magnitude of a misalignment that NGC will attribute. I agree with you on your point @EagleRJO. I think NGC only attributes off-center strikes as mint errors. As for that subject, I have submitted a number of coins struck off center and the minimum percentage I have gotten back is a 10% off center strike mint error. I am not sure if they attribute a 5% off center strike. At ten percent, depending on the coin, a number of details will be missing as far as lettering or date goes, as well as a portion of the rim. I do also know NGC will not attribute a colonial or pre US Mint coin for die rotation which was seemingly common in coins dated before 1792. Edited July 16 by powermad5000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) On 7/16/2023 at 12:27 AM, powermad5000 said: I have submitted a number of coins struck off center and the minimum percentage I have gotten back is a 10% off center strike mint error. I am not sure if they attribute a 5% off center strike. A minimum 10% misalignment to attribute a coin as having an error as indicated in the Red Book does seem reasonable. I suspect the mint has a tighter tolerance for misaligned dies, but couldn't find anything concrete. Maybe @RWB may know what the mint tolerance is for misaligned dies with all the records he has from the mint. Edited July 16 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
