To grade or not to grade 0

[Lightbandit]

I recently won an 1817 13 stars large cent in a mystery bag raffle and I'm wondering if it's worth grading and what my reasonable expectations around turn around time and grading results should be. Thanks in advance for giving my newbie question a look over. Please see attached pics

 

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

To open, I am not sure who wrote the price on the cardboard flip for this coin but I think that is way off. There is one 15 star variety for this year and there is about 16 different 13 star varieties. The value of the 15 star variety is very much higher than the 13 star variety (3 to 5 times as much and exponentially in the higher grades). I don't think a 13 star variety designation will help with the value of this coin. I would say it was cleaned in the past (it may just be the lighting of the photo) but also has a level of environmental damage which would guarantee it receives a details grade. IMHO I would give this coin an F details grade. The current price guide value for an F grade 1817 Coronet Head Large Cent is $55 and with the details grade would drop the value into the VG or G range (basically $25-$40) Certification of this coin would most likely only be for a genuine guarantee or a variety designation but I would not submit this coin as its value is not worth the costs of submitting.

[Lightbandit]

thanks for your disappointing yet honest opinion.  I am little upset as the guy running this raffle, listed this as one of the "chaser" prizes so I feel like I was hoodwinked as well as everyone else who was chasing the ceiling prizes. #sadPanda

[J P M]

On 6/4/2023 at 6:06 PM, Lightbandit said:

thanks for your disappointing yet honest opinion.  I am little upset as the guy running this raffle, listed this as one of the "chaser" prizes so I feel like I was hoodwinked as well as everyone else who was chasing the ceiling prizes. #sadPanda

 

On 6/4/2023 at 4:24 PM, Lightbandit said:

I recently won an 1817 13 stars large cent in a mystery bag raffle

This sounds like a coin store bag where they take a variety of low and medium grade coins and throw in some posable collectables coins in a $50 to $100 bag sale. It is normally worth the price value of the coins in the bag give or take a bit.  

[Sandon]

    I largely agree with what @powermad5000 wrote. This 1817 Matron Head large cent might grade as high as Very Fine in terms of details but was pitted and corroded and was then improperly and harshly "cleaned", likely with metal polish. It appears to be an example of the N-13 die variety, a common (R1) variety and certainly not worth the cost of third-party grading. It is still an interesting conversation piece to show non-collectors who don't know that U.S. cents were once the size of a half dollar or have never seen a coin that is so old.

   I hope that the raffle was for a good cause.

[Lightbandit]

It was NOt for a good cause..lol 🤣 hopefully the seller will make things right.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/4/2023 at 4:24 PM, Lightbandit said:

I recently won an 1817 13 stars large cent in a mystery bag raffle

If you decide to pursue this hobby, use that as a lesson:  go slow...go small...until you learn what you are buying, ask folks who can give you an informed opinion (like us).

Good Luck ! 

Edited June 4, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[Jason Abshier]

You’ll come a time when you realize it’s okay to have raw coins in your collection even tho they may be sent in for grading … is that really important ? Ask yourself that , “what’s the rush to get a coin graded?” If you have no intentions of selling it right away … I often get asked that by novice collectors “should I send this in for grading?” My answer is usually No you can buy them already graded by dealer or another collector selling them save up your money and pay for it outright …. Unless you’re curious about authentication? Then study hard on what you want to send in for authentication and grading keep in mind grading fees , shipping and handling fees , return fees it all adds up to a big bill you may not be aware of when the coin wasn’t really worth grading fees….

Most folks who been collecting for a long time keep in mind they won’t send a coin in for grading unless it’s $150 or more … then again there’s some of us even I myself who own coins that are worth $1,000+ still in RAW condition never been graded yet … why do I buy graded coins ? Sometimes that only route to go for a particular coin I’m looking for in condition I’m looking for … over years I’ve only sent in 3 coins for grading through a dealer that’s is it …everything else I bought was already graded or raw I own both … perhaps someday I’ll get around to sending some in for grading if I plan to sell them that’s only reason I would do it 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Jason Abshier

[EagleRJO]

On 6/5/2023 at 6:59 PM, Jason Abshier said:

You’ll come a time when you realize it’s okay to have raw coins in your collection ...

Almost my entire collection is raw coins.  I see no need to send in coins for someone to put them in a plastic coin coffin with a paper label that has an opinion, unless it's a very valuable coin.  If you want to be able to more easily sell them in the future you are usually better off just buying them slabbed in the first place.

On 6/5/2023 at 6:59 PM, Jason Abshier said:

... “should I send this in for grading?” My answer is usually No

That's a pretty good general rule, unless the coin is worth more than about $300.

[Jason Abshier]

@EagleRJO I see some newer collectors are anxious in a happy way or curious to get a coin graded hoping for that high grade just because they saw one on eBay with a high price tag (doesn’t mean anyone is buying it though) but they assume if their coin graded out that then that’s what it must be worth ! Sounds too good to be true … I urge every new collector to learn to grade raw coins best they can … I do see TPG in a good way helping newer collector when they buy a slabbed coin it guaranteed to be genuine and graded somewhat ballpark “close to the market” grading ….
I do suggest newer collectors to buy NGC/PCGS coins and avoid Raw coins at the beginning if they don’t know how grade or see cleaned coins or counterfeit coins for the matter until they work on their skills better … for the records I never paid for NGC membership nor PCGS membership I have no desire to send in coins for grading And if I do ? I’d go with a dealer who already a member have them send it in for me otherwise I would be wasting my precious money  on a membership I would never fully use coin submission wise … I could use that money to buy more coins for my collection 

[powermad5000]

On 6/6/2023 at 1:56 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I would be wasting my precious money  on a membership I would never fully use coin submission wise …

I have a Premium membership and the membership basically pays for itself when you submit because NGC basically gives you a credit for grading which is near the cost of the membership.

[EagleRJO]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:56 PM, Jason Abshier said:

… I urge every new collector to learn to grade raw coins best they can … 

Very important, in addition to authentication using die markers and certified examples (e.g. NGC VarietyPlus, VAM World, PCGS CoinFacts, etc.).  Even for slabbed coins as some are improperly graded and counterfeits have worked their way to slabbed coins.

[VKurtB]

I, for one, have never understood the pathos of the newer collector's urgency to get a coin graded. I get a mental image of the little dog in the old cartoons that is jumping around excitedly around the big burly bulldog who is basically ignoring him. "What we doin' today, Spike? Are we gonna get a coin graded today, Spike? I got me the submission form right here, Spike!" He then turns to the viewer and says, "Me and Spike are pals, ain't we, Spike?" 

CALM DOWN! There will come a time to have coins graded, but it's almost NEVER when you're a beginner. I started collecting in 1963. Slabbing started in what, the mid-1980's or so? Are you telling me my first two decades nobody bought anything from anybody? Come on, brothers! THINK a little! By the way, I waited until the mid-90's to have my first coin slabbed. How ever did I survive a WHOLE STINKING DECADE without throwing up all over myself in anticipation of getting a coin graded? Simple? I just never jumped excitedly around bulldogs named Spike. And I read books and NEVER EVER did coin roll hunting looking for something "different" or "odd-looking". My dad had a small camera store and photo lab, so I got to examine the cash drawer for better coins. Notice the word "better", not "unusual". Garbage is unusual, too.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot - I own between 30 and 40 large cents, in conditions from VF to the MS Brown range. None are in plastic. None are even in cardboard and Mylar 2x2's, either. All are in cotton pouches which are in turn in 2x2 manila envelopes. All my better older copper is stored that way, regardless of nation.

Photo note: I shaved for my son's wedding in April. Only the 'stache remains. The beard is gone temporarily. I looked almost David Letterman-esque. I will stop shaving again the day I leave for Summer Seminar. I need to be a bearded numismatist for the August ANA show. I bring a nice bottle of "hooch" every year as a door prize for the Society of Bearded Numismatists meeting at each August ANA show. I am taking suggestions for a whiskey or whisky (see Scottish spelling) to bring. It needn't be cheap. I don't cheap out on my bearded pals. Last year I brought 1792-brand bourbon. Michael Shutterly, Esq. walked away with the bottle. (Best in Show Exhibit, too.) It's part of our motto - Whiskers, Wampum, and Women, nope, Whiskey.

Edited June 7, 2023 by VKurtB