Third-party grading service other than NGC, NCS or PCGS, regrade with NGC/PCGS/NCS? 1 1

[MattGinAZ]

I've got several items that have been graded by a 'third-party grading service other than NGC, NCS or PCGS'. PGA, SEGs et al. Does it make sense to have those regraded by NGC or PCGS? Just trying to see which services' grading are accepted as 'universally equivalent' among the services.   

thanks

Edited April 9, 2023 by MattGinAZ
Make title more informative as to topic.

[Mr.Bill347]

You always run the risk of coin damage when removing the coin from the op, plus you risk getting a lower grade on the re-run. If it matters to you to have NGC or PCGS holders then by all means send them in.

[JT2]

You may be disappointed if you do.  do not be surprised if those other company's come back as detailed, cleaned, or a much lower grade then you think.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 4/9/2023 at 4:10 AM, MattGinAZ said:

I've got several items that have been graded by a 'third-party grading service other than NGC, NCS or PCGS'. PGA, SEGs et al. Does it make sense to have those regraded by NGC or PCGS? Just trying to see which services' grading are accepted as 'universally equivalent' among the services. 

What are the other TPG's that you have coins graded by? There are some older TPG's that are reputable/accepted. What coins are you considering crossing? It may not make sense to even consider doing so if the value of the coin is low. NGC, PCGS and ANACS are the top three coin TPG's, CAC too if they've started slabbing yet. NCS is a conservation service, they do not authenticate or grade coins.  Not sure who PGA and SEG are. 

[Coinbuf]

Your question is too broad to answer with anything but generalities.   As Mike said there are some other TPG's, both active and some now inactive, that are well received and respected by much of the market.   And there are many basement slabbers that are a complete joke, without knowing which you have the odds are that the coins you have in those holders will be treated as raw coins in the marketplace.   However, as with most things there are the occasional gems to be found in even the least respected holders.

Many years ago I bought a group of coins in junk holders (NNC holders) most were overgraded by a point or three, almost every slab was graded MS68 by NNC.   I knew that when I bought them and got the coins for a very fair/cheap price.   I took the best four or five and submitted them to PCGS and NGC, three of those graded MS67 and I also sent the best of the group to CAC and it did pass.

The thing here is not to automatically pass on a junk slab if the quality is there and the price is right.   But use caution, you have to know how to grade to play in that sandbox, otherwise you can really lose a lot of money on cleaned and damaged overgraded slider coins.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Coinbuf

[bstrauss3]

PGA is garbage ... they're being sold in current auctions referencing PCGS' price guide. A PGA MS65 is not a PCGS MS65 - and you can see it in the auction prices... "Price Guide $4,500 ... sold for $500" which is probably still 2x value.

SEGS runs hot & cold. They burned a lot of goodwill when they (SEGS Inc) shut down one Friday and reopened as SEGS, LLC on Monday. No visible difference in the slabs, but SEGS LLC refused to honor the guarantee from SEGS Inc ("the prior company"). They've since been sold to a far less reputable individual.

NNC is a self-slabber, who used to be centsles on fleaBay.

PCI was initially reputable, but went through several ownerships and periods of questionable grading... once you lose your reputation, you've got nothing left. 

 

For any company, you need to do some research to figure out who they are and roughly when the coins were slabbed to begin to figure out if the grades are even in the same league or not.

[Jason Abshier]

You got any pictures of these off brand slabs ? As novice collector just getting into the hobby be very wary buying coins in slabs there’s a lot of “basement” slabbers out there who slab their own coins for a quick payout it’s like Cancer! Spreading into our coin collecting hobby us older collectors know all about them however they prey on novice collectors these coins are basic “pocket change” put in holder with a goofy graded paper in holder looks like printer ran out of ink couldn’t even print paper and grade properly (I get it novice collectors see the prices is cheaper so they buy it)  …. Some of the old old slabbed stuff is either a hit or miss like PCI slabbed coins ! If you don’t know how see cleaned coins , problem coins and so not you know how properly grade coins yourself… PCGS and NGC can or would grade them out as detailed problem coins … in the end you’ll be disappointed but a lesson to learn from … 

so take some pictures of the slabbed coins you have a few members can give you better information if coin is worth sending off or not … 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Jason Abshier

[MattGinAZ]

Thanks for the info. TPGs i have are

ANACS

ICG

NGC

NNC qty 1

PCGS

PGA

SEGS

USCG qty 1

Just what I was looking for. thanks again.

My problem has been recognizing cleaned coins. Bust halves in particular.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by MattGinAZ

[Coinbuf]

On 4/12/2023 at 9:25 AM, MattGinAZ said:

Thanks for the info. TPGs i have are

ANACS

ICG

NGC

NNC qty 1

PCGS

PGA

SEGS

USCG qty 1

Just what I was looking for. thanks again.

My problem has been recognizing cleaned coins. Bust halves in particular.

 

ANACS - Well respected in todays market, many collectors place them just behind NGC/PCGS.   Depending on which generation of holder you have, some are considered as very conservatively graded while others are seen as more liberally graded.

ICG - Also most considered respectable in the current market, depending on who you ask ICG is usually behind or tied with ANACS.   I have only owned a few ICG slabs and those were, imo, very poorly graded, thus I generally tend to avoid ICG.

NGC - Speaks for itself as one of the best.

NNC - As Burton noted above this is a self slabber, I don't know the current ownership but I have found a few very nice coins in these holders, albeit you have to adjust the grade on the holder, often by many grade points.   Consider coins in these holders as raw and highly likely to be problem coins as the value goes up.

PCGS - Again speaks for itself.

PGA - Total junk, consider these coins raw and highly likely to be problem coins or even counterfeits.   Only buy coins in this holder if you are positive or have gotten some additional feedback from someone you trust.

SEGS - This is one where the holder generation matters a lot!   The company was started by Larry Briggs and he is/was (not sure if he is alive) a very competent grader.   However as is often the case it is easy to be overly lenient when grading your own coins.   But the coins that were graded by Lary have a good chance of being graded correctly and the chance of a counterfeit or switched coin is very low.   Partly because the SEGS holder is the toughest holder to crack ever!

USCG - Again total junk basement slabber, treat as a raw coin and avoid unless you are completely certain of the coin.

Here is a link to a site that has information on almost every slab brand ever seen, there is often very little info on the basement slabbers.   But if there is little information that should serve as a red flag anyway, the companies are listed on the right side of the page alphabetically.   There are many very good certification holders out there that are very good, just few people know about them, you can find some of those listed here, an example of one is IGA.

Link

Additionally, looking for bust half's that are original and unmolested is somewhat like looking for a unicorn, there are not very many that have not been "conserved" at some point in the past.   If you are in the Phx area you might consider looking into the Phx coin club and the Mesa coin club, you might find some members of those clubs who could be of help to mentor and help with your quest.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Coinbuf

[Sandon]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:25 PM, MattGinAZ said:

My problem has been recognizing cleaned coins

   This can be difficult for any collector regardless of experience due to the number and extents of abrasive and/or chemical treatments of coins that are categorized as "cleaning". Generally, look for extensive hairlining, an ugly or "off" color, blotchy or irregular toning patterns, or glossy surfaces, any of which can result in a designation of a coin as "cleaned".  There is a limit to what can be done with photos, but I have posted photos and comments regarding a variety of NGC and PCGS certified coins designated as "cleaned" or that I regard as "cleaned" as a custom registry set at Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set (collectors-society.com).