ASE Newbie Question 1 1

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:19 PM, Sandon said:

No one imagined then that people would remove common modern collectors' issues, nearly all of which are superb gems, from their mint packaging, pay grading fees and costs often exceeding their mint issue price, and then sell them for exorbitant prices. 

This. And I STILL DON'T, nor will I EVER!!

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:19 PM, Sandon said:

You may want to shop around for a carrier who has no such requirement.

NEVER use your homeowner insurer!!! EVER!!! My homeowner insurer is USAA, and they will NEVER get a SNIFF at insuring my collection. The ratio between USAA and Hugh Wood was higher than 10:1, and Hugh Wood had less red tape.

Edited July 20, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:19 PM, Sandon said:

a carrier who has no such requirement.

I was unaware ANY insurer requires it. If they DO, RUN AWAY FAST!!! Comparison shop your insurer EVERY BIT as hard as your next rare Morgan.

Edited July 20, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:19 PM, Sandon said:

No one imagined then that people would remove common modern collectors' issues, nearly all of which are superb gems, from their mint packaging, pay grading fees and costs often exceeding their mint issue price, and then sell them for exorbitant prices. 

Actually, I bet they did.  By the time the TPGs had started up, the baseball collecting craze was just getting started but ramping up bigtime.  With cards that used to go in the spokes of bicycle wheels now going for hundreds or thousands of dollars, nothing would have surprised anybody back then ! 

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:36 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Actually, I bet they did.  By the time the TPGs had started up, the baseball collecting craze was just getting started but ramping up bigtime.  With cards that used to go in the spokes of bicycle wheels now going for hundreds or thousands of dollars, nothing would have surprised anybody back then ! 

No. Trust me. They didn't. I was there. Oh, by the way, the NEXT sports card I buy will be the FIRST sports card I buy. Comic books too.

Edited July 20, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:41 PM, Tony Follis said:

I just tip toe in and out

[Reno Raines]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:19 PM, Sandon said:

   Coin collecting, the "hobby of kings", goes back thousands of years, as do coins themselves.  Grading services that encapsulate coins have only existed since 1986, when PCGS opened for business. I don't think that any service that regularly even authenticated coins existed before 1972--the year after I started collecting--when the ANA started ANACS as a service that issued black and white photo certificates of authenticity. One avoided counterfeit, altered and overgraded coins by "buy[ing] the book before the coin," purchasing coins from reputable dealers, and learning as much as one could from books and periodicals, from study of the coins themselves, and from experienced collectors and dealers.

   This still works today. Collector versions of ASEs can readily be purchased from reputable dealers with their original mint packaging and certificates.  All of the Asian-produced fakes I have seen so far have obvious differences from the genuine coins that should be evident to you if you have bothered to look at authenticated examples or even their photos, such as those on PCGS Coinfacts. Even if you buy mostly or only certified coins, there is no substitute for developing your own knowledge, judgment, and taste, which is, for me, what makes coin collecting worthwhile, any financial benefits being at best an afterthought. Before buying coins of any value, you should endeavor to learn about them and ultimately rely on your own judgment about their authenticity and especially their grade notwithstanding any grading service opinion. Evolve from being a "newbie". 

   As I recall, when PCGS and NGC started business they initially wouldn't accept any coins dated after 1950, which date was gradually changed to 1964 and 1970 before the services eventually began accepting all modern coins. Third-party grading and authentication was believed to be suitable only for coins worth at least hundreds (more likely thousands) of dollars, especially those that were frequently altered or counterfeited or those where a point or two in grade would result in a substantial difference in market value. No one imagined then that people would remove common modern collectors' issues, nearly all of which are superb gems, from their mint packaging, pay grading fees and costs often exceeding their mint issue price, and then sell them for exorbitant prices. 

   Whether or not to an insure a collection is an entirely different issue that depends on the value of the collection, how it is stored, and other factors.  I had never heard of an insurance carrier requiring third party certification for generally low value coins such as ASEs.  You may want to shop around for a carrier who has no such requirement.

What is the absolute best book that you would recommend to a newbie coin collector? Keep in mind that I'm looking for only one book.

[Reno Raines]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:25 PM, VKurtB said:

NEVER use your homeowner insurer!!! EVER!!! My homeowner insurer is USAA, and they will NEVER get a SNIFF at insuring my collection. The ratio between USAA and Hugh Wood was higher than 10:1, and Hugh Wood had less red tape.

Lloyd's of London will be insuring my collection even though I live in the US.

[Reno Raines]

I did read that Beckett has started their own coin grading service. If I remember correctly they made their name by publishing sportscard price guides and grading sportscards. If and when I buy an ungraded coin I won't be sending it to Beckett to be graded but I'll send it to NGC as they are more established and respected in the coin grading community.

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:43 PM, Tony Follis said:

What is the absolute best book that you would recommend to a newbie coin collector? Keep in mind that I'm looking for only one book.

No such thing as one best book. Your need to shortcut many things speaks volumes.

[Reno Raines]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:02 PM, VKurtB said:

No such thing as one best book. Your need to shortcut many things speaks volumes.

We all live in a fast paced world these days and I just don't have enough time to read every coin collecting book ever published.

[J P M]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:03 PM, Tony Follis said:

I never said that coins are an investment. However, in my case the only way I can get them insured is to have them certified / graded by a TPG as I'm not an ANA member. As we all know coins made from gold and silver are most likely to be counterfeited especially rare and or key dates. Don't twist my words.

I have all my coins insured. The graded coins and raw ASE, on my insurance I even have mint sets and proof sets included. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:38 PM, VKurtB said:

No. Trust me. They didn't. I was there. Oh, by the way, the NEXT sports card I buy will be the FIRST sports card I buy. Comic books too.

I know they generally do NOT make for good "investments" for the reasons I've outlined here along with others....that said....their prices certainly have risen over time, if not comensurate with financial investments like stocks, bonds, or real estate.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:10 PM, Tony Follis said:

We all live in a fast paced world these days and I just don't have enough time to read every coin collecting book ever published.

That's why these forums exist !!    

[Reno Raines]

On 7/20/2023 at 8:12 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's why these forums exist !!    

Yup that's why when I have time I read answers to newbie questions from experienced collectors.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:43 PM, Tony Follis said:

What is the absolute best book that you would recommend to a newbie coin collector? Keep in mind that I'm looking for only one book.

There isn't "one book" but if you primarily, or only, collect ASEs then I believe there is an ASE RedBook and another with Meranti, designer, as coauthor I think.

[EagleRJO]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:38 AM, BearlyHereBear said:

When it comes to ASE's, it's usually better to wait a bit after first released and prices drop a bit.

Pretty typical as the "must have now" demand or the novelty of that issue drops off after a little while.

On 7/18/2023 at 9:38 AM, BearlyHereBear said:

... the uncirculated or burnished always has the lowest mintage (yet is not the most expensive...weird).

Even at the lower mintage there is not a demand that approaches or exceeds the mintage, so it makes sense to me.  Supply and demand.

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:11 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I know they generally do NOT make for good "investments" for the reasons I've outlined here along with others....that said....their prices certainly have risen over time, if not comensurate with financial investments like stocks, bonds, or real estate.

Stocks and bonds have treated me well. The only real estate I invest in is my home in Alabama and one smallish forest tract in Pennsylvania. Nice hardwoods. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[Sandon]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:43 PM, Tony Follis said:

What is the absolute best book that you would recommend to a newbie coin collector? Keep in mind that I'm looking for only one book.

  The best single book on U.S. coins generally would be a current (2024) or recent edition of the "Red Book", the standard edition for quick reference, the "Deluxe" or "Mega Red" edition for more in-depth information and more varieties. Neither edition is great for up-to-date pricing.  I've posted the following topic on print and on-line resources for new collectors generally:

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:49 PM, Tony Follis said:

Lloyd's of London will be insuring my collection even though I live in the US.

Lloyds of Lubbock will be insuring mine. 

"Odd Couple" reference for those over the age of 50 or who watched it in re-runs.   

[Reno Raines]

On 7/20/2023 at 10:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Lloyds of Lubbock will be insuring mine. 

"Odd Couple" reference for those over the age of 50 or who watched it in re-runs.   

I'm not quite 46 years old yet but will be in September.

[Conder101]

I went back to purchase the 2022 proof set but they were sold out. Found a proof set on Amazon but close to 3x the regular mint price. Is this normal for proof sets?

For the 1971 to late 20 teens no.  Most of them sell for less than their issue price (mintages were high, in the 2 to 4 million range).  But for the past few years the mintages of the proof sets have dropped so low that they  now hold their value or even go up in value.(mintages as low as around 750,000 sets.)  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/20/2023 at 11:42 PM, Conder101 said:

For the 1971 to late 20 teens no.  Most of them sell for less than their issue price (mintages were high, in the 2 to 4 million range).  But for the past few years the mintages of the proof sets have dropped so low that they  now hold their value or even go up in value.(mintages as low as around 750,000 sets.)  

Wow....that was when I was getting them for Christmas, Bdays, etc.  

So you're saying hardly any or NONE of those proof or mint sets since 1971 have really appreciated at all ?  

[Reno Raines]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:18 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wow....that was when I was getting them for Christmas, Bdays, etc.  

So you're saying hardly any or NONE of those proof or mint sets since 1971 have really appreciated at all ?  

Condor is correct. In fact I just bought a 1977 (my birth year) proof set for a total of $7.50.

[VKurtB]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:43 PM, Tony Follis said:

I'm not quite 46 years old yet but will be in September.

The explanations of the deeply flawed thought processes are starting to pile up.

Edited July 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[Reno Raines]

On 7/21/2023 at 4:19 PM, VKurtB said:

The explanations of the deeply flawed thought processes are starting to pile up.

I'm sorry that I'm not an old cronie like you.

[VKurtB]

On 7/21/2023 at 5:07 PM, Tony Follis said:

I'm sorry that I'm not an old cronie like you.

I am too. You'd be smarter. I promise. Actually, that's not fair. Being 46 is a fine age, if it coincides with having 38 years of experience in numismatics.

Edited July 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[Reno Raines]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:25 PM, VKurtB said:

I am too. You'd be smarter. I promise. Actually, that's not fair. Being 46 is a fine age, if it coincides with having 38 years of experience in numismatics.

I'm sorry I invest in real estate, stocks,bonds,T-bills and works of fine art by old masters instead of  numismatics damn it. Oh wait ALL of the investments I've made are far more lucrative compared to numismatics my bad .

[VKurtB]

On 7/21/2023 at 6:50 PM, Tony Follis said:

I'm sorry I invest in real estate, stocks,bonds,T-bills and works of fine art by old masters instead of  numismatics damn it. Oh wait ALL of the investments I've made are far more lucrative compared to numismatics my bad .

I invest too. But NEVER in coins. They stink as an investment. They are a HOBBY! ONLY! But you want a single book to read. Are you sure you don't also "invest" in nose candy, to facilitate your tip toeing in and out? By the way, the PARTICULAR kind of coin you're buying is among the WORST "investments" of all.

Edited July 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[Reno Raines]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:52 PM, VKurtB said:

I invest too. But NEVER in coins. They stink as an investment. They are a HOBBY! ONLY!

I view coin collecting as more of game than a hobby. If you really think about it you'll understand what I mean.