2017 upper deck grandeur hockey 1oz silver coins. 0

[marinecorp96]

Can someone please tell me if NCG will grade these coins. If so witch tier modern or standard? Do I have to take them out of the plastic casing. Thank you

[EagleRJO]

I assume those coins are in the mint capsules.  Why take a risk of contamination by removing them from the mint capsules?  Also, you will likely lose money submitting them with the value under about $300.

[JT2]

What you have are bullion coins.  at the end of the day still bullion. they will never be worth more that that and you will not profit from having them graded.  it will only be a waste of your time and money.  keep them in the OGP and enjoy them.

[marinecorp96]

Thank you both once again for answering my question. I recently purchased these at a great price right around the spot price for silver. These are 1 of those things that a company (upperdeck a sport card company) tries to branch out to more collectors in this case the sport card and coin collector it was a huge failure. That is why they only did them one time in 2017. There 20 players who each got there own coin and there are 4 coins per player. Each player got 1 3/4 oz gold coin there were only 100 made per player all numbered so 2000 gold coins total then run around 700.00 to 1000.00 a coin. Then the 3 last coins are all 1 oz silver there is a 1-500,1-1000 and a 1-5000. So if you times that 5000x20 you can see there is alot of coins out there. Then do the same with the 1-500 and 1-1000 and its alot. All the silver coins are numbered also look close at the pictures you will see(its hard in the pictures) the Wayne Gretsky is a 3515 out of 5000 and the Sean Monhan is a 157 out of 1000. Each of the 3 different silver coins are different. Take a look at the back of the coins. The frosted one is the Wayne Gretsky the other is the Sean Monhan. I dont have a 1-500 to show you but that too is different its hard to get one (I wish I had a gold to show you) Each coin comes in its own box sealed and you dont know witch one your going to get a blind box. The reason I want to get them graded is because these graded triple in value. For example the Wayne Gretzky 1-5000 graded at 69 or 70 is about 200.00. The Sean Monhan 1-1000 is about 150.00 Gretzky commands a higher value because who he is even at the 1-5000 coin. So that is why I want to get them graded. And by the way I collect buy sell sports cards so atleast upperdeck got me to crossover to looking at coins. Thanks 

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

   I agree with the other members who have responded that it's not worthwhile to have modern, noncirculating legal tender "coins" graded by a grading service. If most owners of them do so, they may well be more valuable in the future in their original packaging. However, if you still want to submit this item to NGC, review the following pages on the NGC website for instructions:

How to Submit | NGC (ngccoin.com)

Coins We Grade | NGC Coin Grading Polices | NGC

NGC Services and Fees | NGC (ngccoin.com)

 

 

[marinecorp96]

Thank you Sandon for your response. I know very little about the coin community and how things operate. I mostly do sports cards and comic books. I know in that community buyers have almost demanded that sports cards (higher end) be graded and especially comics and almost any comic book. I do send comics to grade at CGC. Can you please give me some insight as why collectors or sellers in the coin community dont care for non currency coins being graded. And in the coin community is it the same that buyers are wanting the coins graded more than before. Trust me I dont like it. I can have a 100.00 raw comic (not graded) and put it up for sale and no hits. I take that same book send it to CGC put it back on ebay and it will sell in 3 days. At double the price. It seems now that anything comic or sport card or sports related you have to grade it to sell it. These coins are perfect examples. I can put them on ebay for 60.00 a coin and they wont sell. I have them graded they will sell in 5 days for double the price. It makes no sense to me. I buy and sell only to add to my personal collection. Thank you

[Sandon]

   The now rampant and excessive third-party certification and encapsulation of small collectors' items began with coins in 1986, when PCGS began operations, followed by NGC in 1987. (I had already been a collector for about 15 years.) Originally, third-party certification was for coins of sufficiently high numismatic value that they would be subject to being counterfeited or altered or to establish that they were in an unusually high grade that would result in their having such value.  As I recall, in the early years the grading services only accepted U.S. coins dated no later than 1950, as it wasn't believed that any later coin could possibly be worth it. The idea was that the collector could get an unbiased professional opinion of the authenticity and grade of a truly valuable coin. Grading services weren't considered a substitute for the collector's personally learning about coins and their grading and once sufficiently educated developing personal judgment and taste. They still aren't. You have to have a substantial amount of knowledge and experience of grading yourself to submit coins that will likely receive sufficient grades to make the cost worthwhile

   Modern coins made as collectors' issues that are obtained from government mints in original capsules or sealed holders with their original papers and packaging simply don't present the issues of authentication and grading that coins made for circulation do. They are all pretty much alike and all in Superb Gem or Uncirculated grades (69 or 70). The packaging of your items is a lot better looking than a grading service holder as well! While there have been counterfeits of just about everything, including original packaging, coming out of China, there have also been counterfeit NGC and PCGS holders containing counterfeit and overgraded coins, some with correctly matching serial numbers to genuine certified pieces. I also doubt that the graders have even seen enough coins like yours to make an informed judgment as to their authenticity anyway. 

 

[World Colonial]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:25 PM, Sandon said:

 Originally, third-party certification was for coins of sufficiently high numismatic value that they would be subject to being counterfeited or altered or to establish that they were in an unusually high grade that would result in their having such value.  As I recall, in the early years the grading services only accepted U.S. coins dated no later than 1950, as it wasn't believed that any later coin could possibly be worth it.

It's the financialization from TPG that made high grade common coins expensive or of "noticeable" value.  Or maybe during the 70's at the earlies when coins were first widely bought as "investments".  This is noticeable in the prices right about when you started collecting.  

Previously, All post 1933 US coins except for key and some semi-key dates were nominally valued, regardless of what's on the label now.  No one would have paid current prices even adjusted for inflation because there was no market for it.  Generic scarcity was a lot more important, just like it is now in most of the world.

[EagleRJO]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:24 PM, marinecorp96 said:

Can you please give me some insight as why collectors or sellers in the coin community dont care for non currency coins being graded.

It may be that there are more old school collectors in the coin community than in the comics or sports card community.  I am one of the old school coin collectors who believes that coins should be collected and stored raw, with just a protective holder that can be easily opened to hold the coins in your hands when desired.

Not the collection of coins in sealed plastic coin coffins, with paper tags that has one persons opinion slapped on it, never to be held in the collectors hand ever again.  I collect coins, not paper tags and plastic holders.  The only exception to this are coins obtained directly from the mint, which come in plastic capsules which I leave alone with the original packaging. 

On the flip side I do not sell a lot of coins, where to make sales more rapidly it would be desirable to have graded coins.  But I often do business with companies and eBay sellers that regularly sell raw coins and may have quite an extensive inventory of raw coins.

On 4/7/2023 at 12:24 PM, marinecorp96 said:

These coins are perfect examples. I can put them on ebay for 60.00 a coin and they wont sell. I have them graded they will sell in 5 days for double the price. It makes no sense to me.

I typically do not see that type of spread for bullion coins, where sending it to a TPG for grading will end up with a loss overall due to the cost of grading.

On 4/7/2023 at 12:24 PM, marinecorp96 said:

I mostly do sports cards and comic books.

Completely off topic, as a card and comic collector I am curious what your thoughts are on a move by NGC towards a 10 point grading scale starting with modern coins, in lieu of the present Sheldon 70 point grading scale, discussed here ... 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by EagleRJO

[RWB]

Please listen to World Colonial.

Do not wast money on any TPG service for these things.

[Coinbuf]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:24 AM, marinecorp96 said:

Thank you Sandon for your response. I know very little about the coin community and how things operate. I mostly do sports cards and comic books. I know in that community buyers have almost demanded that sports cards (higher end) be graded and especially comics and almost any comic book. I do send comics to grade at CGC. Can you please give me some insight as why collectors or sellers in the coin community dont care for non currency coins being graded. And in the coin community is it the same that buyers are wanting the coins graded more than before. Trust me I dont like it. I can have a 100.00 raw comic (not graded) and put it up for sale and no hits. I take that same book send it to CGC put it back on ebay and it will sell in 3 days. At double the price. It seems now that anything comic or sport card or sports related you have to grade it to sell it. These coins are perfect examples. I can put them on ebay for 60.00 a coin and they wont sell. I have them graded they will sell in 5 days for double the price. It makes no sense to me. I buy and sell only to add to my personal collection. Thank you

The answer to your question is muti faceted, there are many older collectors who are comfortable with their grading skills (real and sometimes perceived) who think they do not need and/or want a TPG opinion.   Then there are many new and old collectors who value the opinions of a TPG and also a third party assessment company like CAC.   That can be due to many factors, newer collectors may not have acquired the skills to grade well yet, and like it or not, as we age our eyesight usually degrades.   For these two and even more reasons there are collectors that do prefer to have coins, even coins that are mostly bullion value coins, graded and certified.   That is why you often see those coins trade at a premium to raw, (even it only slightly) on sites like ebay or FB or IG.   On virtual marketplaces where a buyer can only go by the photos the TPG certification add some reassurance and makes some buyers more comfortable that they are not getting ripped off.

I'm not suggesting that you should have these graded, that is a call only you can make.   But I do think it is true that having them certified might open up the marketplace and make these coins an easier sale vs raw.   The real question is can you sell them for enough of a premium over a raw piece to cover the grading costs, ultimately that is the question you have to answer.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Coinbuf

[powermad5000]

Welcome to the NGC chat boards!

NGC will grade these. You may have to provide them some additional information about the coins being they are for sports memorabilia. You would have to take them out of the OGP plastic rounds yourself. You have to get 2.5"x2.5" flips to submit them in. You have to get a base membership unless you can find a dealer near you that will accept and send in submissions for you. In lieu of that, insured shipping will cost you around $30-$35 to ship them. You have to submit them on the modern tier for $21 per coin. And you will have to pay for the return shipping cost which is a minimum of about $30. Should you need a base membership, you are looking at about $125 just to submit one coin.

Being these are a sports collectible thing, bullion, and not an actual currency type of coin, I would definitely NOT submit these for grading. This demand you state in your post with people paying these prices as of right now, you have to remember that the price will be based on demand (like currency). Typically, with these kinds of collectibles, there is a big demand when they hit the market, but that demand drops over time, and think if that demand will exist twenty years from now???? Probably not. So, the prices that are getting paid by people for them now will historically not be sustained twenty years from now (versus actual US currency where demand typically remains the same over time). Putting them in a TPG holder will just be a very expensive version of the OGP plastic round they are in now. 

The other thing I will probe in this discussion is what are your grading skills? Do you know they will return as PF 70 UC? I will tell you that I am well into coins for over 45 years. My grading skills are excellent. I purchased the coin in the photo below because I liked the design. I had to take it out of the plastic round just like you will have to. I have plenty of experience doing this and couldn't find anything wrong with the coin when I put it in the flip to submit. It returned this way. This coin without the PF 70 UC has little demand as collectors only desire this coin in perfect condition. Point I am making is by submitting the coins you have in your post here, you are taking a huge risk for a reward that over time I do not think will be much of a reward. 

[J P M]

I agree with the others. It would be cheaper on most coins to find one all ready graded a MS 70 and buy that. Keep what you have now in it's original case.

[marinecorp96]

Thank you for everyone's response. I respect all responses on this subject. I have never sent a coin to grade. And to EagleJRO I cant give you an answer on if I think NGC moving to a 10 point system is good or not for coins only because I have no history on grading coins. I would be out of my realm giving you an answer to that question. 

[powermad5000]

On 4/7/2023 at 8:14 PM, EagleRJO said:

Completely off topic, as a card and comic collector I am curious what your thoughts are on a move by NGC towards a 10 point grading scale starting with modern coins, in lieu of the present Sheldon 70 point grading scale, discussed here ...

I'll chime in on this....I think it is absolute nonsense! Unless they are including all the "points" as in 10.0, 9.9, 9.8, 9.7, etc. then the system is less critical for impairments on coins and more lenient to defects. In the case of say a 2023 ASE, who is getting screwed more? The guy who submits his raw for a returned grade of MS 68, or the guy getting his graded as a 9?? A 9 without being more specific could mean anything from MS 65 to MS 69 in lieu of the Sheldon scale and then how do you assign a true value to that? The Sheldon scale then to equate would have to be a scale from 0-100 for it to be "equitable" to the ten point grading scale.

The Sheldon scale has stood the test of time and I don't see why new collectors can't learn it. If you want to cause me heart conditions, try to start telling me my MS 65 and MS 66 Morgans are both 9's.....

[EagleRJO]

On 4/9/2023 at 2:41 AM, powermad5000 said:

If you want to cause me heart conditions, try to start telling me my MS 65 and MS 66 Morgans are both 9's.....

Those would be 9.5 and 9.6.  There is more of a direct crossover with MS coins.  For others see the topic I linked above.

On 4/9/2023 at 12:12 AM, marinecorp96 said:

And to EagleJRO I cant give you an answer on if I think NGC moving to a 10 point system is good or not for coins only because I have no history on grading coins. I would be out of my realm giving you an answer to that question. 

I asked because you indicated you were really a card and comic collector, and one of the reported reasons for the 10 point NGCX scale is to draw in new coin collectors from other hobbies like stamp, coin and comic collecting that presently have a 10 point grading scale.

Apparently, there is some resistance of other hobbyist to cross over to also collecting coins when they encounter the 70-point Sheldon coin grading scale, which some argue is awkward and illogical.  It is a pretty controversial topic.

Edited April 9, 2023 by EagleRJO

[World Colonial]

On 4/9/2023 at 3:15 AM, EagleRJO said:

Apparently, there is some resistance of other hobbyist to cross over to also collecting coins when they encounter the 70-point Sheldon coin grading scale, which some argue is awkward and illogical.  It is a pretty controversial topic.

I don't believe the grading scale has much if anything to do with it, though I'm prepared to change my mind with sufficient evidence.

I'd attribute this belief to the fallacy that those who collect other mass produced collectibles actually want to collect coins when they don't. They aren't interested, just as most coin collectors aren't interested in other mass produced collectible segments either.

This attempt to create "crossover" appeal is simply another step in the financialization of collecting to turn collectibles into "investments".

If someone is in favor of that great, but it has nothing to do with collecting at all.

[World Colonial]

On 4/9/2023 at 2:41 AM, powermad5000 said:

The Sheldon scale has stood the test of time and I don't see why new collectors can't learn it. 

Anyone who can comprehend at the level of an elementary school education should be able to understand the Sheldon scale.   Or is that too much to expect now?

It's obvious that the real reason is marketing and what I wrote in my above post.  The grading services are private enterprises and actual investments to their owners, so shouldn't be any surprise in that.

[powermad5000]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:20 AM, World Colonial said:

Anyone who can comprehend at the level of an elementary school education should be able to understand the Sheldon scale.   Or is that too much to expect now?

It's too difficult with the "new math" being taught nowadays!