I have a question about Full Steps on Nickels. 1 1

[Lost in the Groove]

So when I look at NGC or PCGS price guides for older nickels it shows the separation of FS and MS.  Obviously I understand the FS is higher priced because it has been given the Full Steps designation.  But, when I look at the pictures, especially on PCGS, I see damage to the steps and they are not complete on ones given FS designation.  I guess my question is what is the line of separation?  Does it just have to show partial full steps?  Just for reference, here is an image from PCGS that gave a 67+FS.  What am I missing that this is a FS?  I have a 39 that I was comparing it to that just got me thinking that I dont really understand what does and does not fall into the designation as FS.  I will post pics of that one in next post.  Thanks for any and all info.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Lost in the Groove

[Lost in the Groove]

Here is my 39 that got me wondering after comparing to graded pics.  Fully understand mine is not graded any where near the level of the pcgs one above, but I do think my steps are in better shape.  Just the question on the FS is what I am wondering.  Thanks to all.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Lost in the Groove

[Mr.Bill347]

This is not full steps. Full steps indicates at least 5 or 6 steps completely free of blemish and dings.

LemE and JP are the FS experts here.

[Lost in the Groove]

On 3/14/2023 at 1:13 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

This is not full steps. Full steps indicates at least 5 or 6 steps completely free of blemish and dings.

LemE and JP are the FS experts here.

Thanks for the reply Mr.Bill.  Then I guess I dont understand how the picture on the PCGS site is labeling that as FS.  It does not show steps completely free of blemish or dings.  This is what is confusing me.  Thanks.

[JT2]

the term "Full Steps"  is a strike designation.  Jefferson's are often weakly struck across the steps and and those that are sharply struck can get these designations if the steps leading up to the memorial are full and unbroken  this can eitehr be 5 or 6 full steps.  usually can be found on the earlier side of a dies production run and slowly fading away on the later production runs.

[Lost in the Groove]

On 3/14/2023 at 1:29 PM, JT2 said:

the term "Full Steps"  is a strike designation.  Jefferson's are often weakly struck across the steps and and those that are sharply struck can get these designations if the steps leading up to the memorial are full and unbroken  this can eitehr be 5 or 6 full steps.  usually can be found on the earlier side of a dies production run and slowly fading away on the later production runs.

Thanks for the reply.  Guess that is why I don't understand how that PCGS picture I put in there gets FS.  To me, that is not unbroken. 

[Coinbuf]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:18 AM, Lost in the Groove said:

Thanks for the reply Mr.Bill.  Then I guess I dont understand how the picture on the PCGS site is labeling that as FS.  It does not show steps completely free of blemish or dings.  This is what is confusing me.  Thanks.

Grading should be more of an objective science, however, that is not the case especially under the current market grading system.   Grading is now highly subjective and it is not unusual for a coin to get different grades or strike designations if submitted multiple times.   As a collector or buyer it is up to you to decide if you agree with the grade or strike designation on any slab.

As to the PCGS coin you posted I would not call that FS (not even close imo) nor would I pay FS money for it, but there are collectors that might.   And it is also important to note that we are viewing a photo not the coin itself, perhaps the photo is not fully representative of the steps when viewed in person.

Edited to add: as to your coin, it to is not FS (imo) as there is a disturbance under the third column at the bottom of the steps.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Coinbuf

[Beerjudge]

So.  The graded one, no steps, and his One step?

[Lost in the Groove]

On 3/14/2023 at 1:42 PM, Coinbuf said:

Grading should be more of an objective science, however, that is not the case especially under the current market grading system.   Grading is now highly subjective and it is not unusual for a coin to get different grades or strike designations if submitted multiple times.   As a collector or buyer it is up to you to decide if you agree with the grade or strike designation on any slab.

As to the PCGS coin you posted I would not call that FS (not even close imo) nor would I pay FS money for it, but there are collectors that might.   And it is also important to note that we are viewing a photo not the coin itself, perhaps the photo is not fully representative of the steps when viewed in person.

Edited to add: as to your coin, it to is not FS (imo) as there is a disturbance under the third column at the bottom of the steps.

Thanks so much Coinbuf.  Appreciate the response.  I didn't ever really consider mine to be FS but once I saw the PCGS one I was just wondering if I had it wrong.  Really a ton of gray area in all of this....like u said highly subjective.  My mind isn't used to working like that ha.  Just keep on learning I tell myself.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Lost in the Groove

[J P M]

I can say that the PCGS designation on some of my coins you could say is iffy and photos' can be hard to tell. NGC 5 and 6 steps I think are very close to the real deal.  

[Lem E]

In 1939 there were 2 different versions in the design of the steps. The reverse design was reworked to improve the steps. The PCGS coin you are showing is known as the Reverse of 38 which was the original design and they are generally graded as a whole unit because none of them are technically full steps. They get a little bit of leeway in the grading room. Your example is the reworked version known as the Reverse of 40 and the design is much sharper in the step area. The FS designation is very subjective between different graders. Some will give a set of steps a pass and others will be more harsh while grading. In technical terms, you should be able to see the horizontal lines in between the steps with no hits or breaks that will blend 2 steps together. There can be a small hit as long as it does not go deep enough to interrupt that line. 4 complete lines will indicate a 5 step coin and 5 lines will indicate a 6 step coin per NGC grading standards. PCGS does not differentiate between 5 and 6 steps and will just give a FS designation if they determine there are at least 5 steps. Generally with a 5 step coin the bottom line is gone and the rest of the lines above are visible. You will see coins with a full step designation that technically shouldn’t deserve it. Like I said, it is all up to how the grader sees it. The hubs and dies were reworked several times over the years and beginning around 1987 the step detail is much better and becomes much more common.

[Lost in the Groove]

On 3/14/2023 at 2:31 PM, Lem E said:

In 1939 there were 2 different versions in the design of the steps. The reverse design was reworked to improve the steps. The PCGS coin you are showing is known as the Reverse of 38 which was the original design and they are generally graded as a whole unit because none of them are technically full steps. They get a little bit of leeway in the grading room. Your example is the reworked version known as the Reverse of 40 and the design is much sharper in the step area. The FS designation is very subjective between different graders. Some will give a set of steps a pass and others will be more harsh while grading. In technical terms, you should be able to see the horizontal lines in between the steps with no hits or breaks that will blend 2 steps together. There can be a small hit as long as it does not go deep enough to interrupt that line. 4 complete lines will indicate a 5 step coin and 5 lines will indicate a 6 step coin per NGC grading standards. PCGS does not differentiate between 5 and 6 steps and will just give a FS designation if they determine there are at least 5 steps. Generally with a 5 step coin the bottom line is gone and the rest of the lines above are visible. You will see coins with a full step designation that technically shouldn’t deserve it. Like I said, it is all up to how the grader sees it. The hubs and dies were reworked several times over the years and beginning around 1987 the step detail is much better and becomes much more common.

Thank you sir.

[RWB]

On 3/14/2023 at 1:18 PM, Lost in the Groove said:

Then I guess I dont understand how the picture on the PCGS site is labeling that as FS.

TPG's occasionally make mistakes such as using the wrong photo. Have you tried writing to them, mention the discrepancy, and ask for a correction? There might also be something visible in personal examination that is not shown in the photo.

[bsshog40]

Here's a FS I have. I tried to get a decent quick pic of the steps. I also have a 5FS somewhere. Not sure if ngc does 5FS anymore. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by bsshog40

[RWB]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:11 PM, bsshog40 said:

Here's a FS I have. I tried to get a decent quick pic of the steps. I also have a 5FS somewhere. Not sure if ngc does 5FS anymore. 

 

Nice steps. That's what they should look like!

[powermad5000]

Yes, NGC still does 5FS as well as 6FS. Too bad I don't have pics of the reverses of my nickels with 5FS and 6FS. I have a 43 P MS 65 5FS and now I really wish I took a pic of the reverse of that one.

[bsshog40]

I'll dig out my 5FS today and post the steps on it. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by bsshog40

[J P M]

It is a little fuzzy but this is a 2006 D MS68FS  

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by J P M

[bsshog40]

So here is my 1996 MS64 6FS. The one below is my 38 rev of 40 MS66 5FS.

Edited March 17, 2023 by bsshog40

[Lem E]

On 3/17/2023 at 2:32 PM, J P M said:

It is a little fuzzy but this is a 2006 D MS68FS  

 

SMS?

[J P M]

On 3/18/2023 at 4:18 PM, Lem E said:

SMS?

Yes Satin Finish for PCGS is SMS in NGC

[GBrad]

On 3/17/2023 at 5:09 PM, bsshog40 said:

Very nice!  I'm just commenting here for clarification for the author of the post- @Lost in the Groove, the visible blurred/distorted areas are on the holder and not the coin. Hopefully I am correct in my assumption.