A Nice addition arrived today. 2023 American Silver Eagle Proof. 1 1

[Mr.Bill347]

No clamshell but a tighter fitting felt covered plastic insert. A little more decorative on the box with the embossed Liberty.

[EagleRJO]

Nice.  I like the Type 2 better also.  Too bad they are still doing the cheesy dollar store cardboard and plastic presentation boxes.

[Mr.Bill347]

They charge an additional $10 for that embossed box..  $80

[powermad5000]

Even though I do not collect these, I love the eagle on the reverse! Very cool!

[VKurtB]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:29 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

They charge an additional $10 for that embossed box..  $80

That box treatment is STUNNING looking. I saw them at the Mint booth at Phoenix. It was released in 2 versions - this one for 80 Simoleans, and the Congratulations packaging for 82. The Mint Director sat for MANY hours signing them. VERY generous with her time. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by VKurtB

[JT2]

Awsome... mine hasn't gotten here yet   still waiting!!!!  

[EagleRJO]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:37 PM, VKurtB said:

That box treatment is STUNNING looking. I saw them at the Mint booth at Phoenix. It was released in 2 versions - this one for 80 Simoleans, and the Congratulations packaging for 82. The Mint Director sat for MANY hours signing them. VERY generous with her time. 

Next time you see her please let her know how poor of a decision she made switching to the horrible cheesy dollar store plastic inserts, as that change was made under her watch and resulted in me canceling virtually all of my mint subscriptions due to what I perceive as a misguided cost savings attempt and poor decision making.  What's next, just wrap the capsule in old newspaper, add some scotch tape, and slap a stamp on it.

I understand the mint has been getting hammered with complaints about the change, and even sent out an explanation letter trying to justify the change.  Instead of more money for additional window dressing on the outer sheath and explanation letters, I wish they would just go back to the nice clamshell style presentation boxes.  I would be okay a more plain outer sheath like before if the coin capsule was in a clamshell inner box.

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:35 PM, EagleRJO said:

Next time you see her please let her know how poor of a decision she made switching to the horrible cheesy dollar store plastic inserts, as that change was made under her watch and resulted in me canceling virtually all of my mint subscriptions due to what I perceive as a misguided cost savings attempt and poor decision making.  What's next, just wrap the capsule in old newspaper, add some scotch tape, and slap a stamp on it.

I understand the mint has been getting hammered with complaints about the change, and even sent out an explanation letter trying to justify the change.  Instead of more money for additional window dressing on the outer sheath and explanation letters, I wish they would just go back to the nice clamshell style presentation boxes.  I would be okay a more plain outer sheath like before if the coin capsule was in a clamshell inner box.

I’m sorry, I have not bought proofs of ASE’s since over a decade ago. I do buy the “burnished” variety, and I may be wrong, but all that has happened is a unification of packaging systems. I have actually seen an enhancement of the burnished packaging. The fuzzy clamshells would significantly increase pricing. New government pricing regulations require ALL (and all means all) costs to be covered without subsidy. And yes, it did not used to be this way. But it is now, and will continue to be. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by VKurtB

[EagleRJO]

@VKurtBWell then it may very well be that her hands are tied to break even, and it sounds like she was very generous with her time as the Director of the US Mint to spend hours signing boxes.

I decided yesterday not to give up so easily on the ASE's considering the number of years invested, and ordered a 2023 proof with the $5 add for a gift box, which I understand is the clamshell presentation box.  Maybe with the embossed outer sleeve and the clamshell inner box it may actually come out very nice and better than expected.

Do you know if it looks like the issue with milk spots has been resolved?  I heard through the grapevine that it was a processing issue with the coils used to make the blanks for ASE's, which apparently was resolved.

[Sandon]

     When the mint first offered proof Silver Eagles in 1986, the price was $24 per coin. While the price would unavoidably be much higher today, I don't understand how the cost of production and distribution of these coins and their packaging could be $56 in excess of the $21 or so current value of the silver in the coin. To the extent that fixed costs are being allocated to the price, the much higher price could make the situation worse by reducing the number of units sold. At one time I purchased two of these each year. I'm now down to one, and if the price goes much higher, I won't be buying any.  I stopped buying silver proof sets when the price suddenly increased in 2020 from $56 to $105. 

    The mint should look into eliminating any inefficiencies in the production process or risk losing much of its customer base.

  

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 6:47 PM, EagleRJO said:

@VKurtBWell then it may very well be that her hands are tied to break even, and it sounds like she was very generous with her time as the Director of the US Mint to spend hours signing boxes.

I decided yesterday not to give up so easily on the ASE's considering the number of years invested, and ordered a 2023 proof with the $5 add for a gift box, which I understand is the clamshell presentation box.  Maybe with the embossed outer sleeve and the clamshell inner box it may actually come out very nice and better than expected.

Do you know if it looks like the issue with milk spots has been resolved?  I heard through the grapevine that it was a processing issue with the coils used to make the blanks for ASE's, which apparently was resolved.

I hope the $5 box IS the one you seek. That would be very nice. I had not heard there was a milk spot fix. Again, I hope that’s right. 

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 7:05 PM, Sandon said:

I stopped buying silver proof sets when the price suddenly increased in 2020 from $56 to $105. 

$140 this year. I can’t NOT have one to break up for my Danscos. 

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 7:05 PM, Sandon said:

     When the mint first offered proof Silver Eagles in 1986, the price was $24 per coin. While the price would unavoidably be much higher today, I don't understand how the cost of production and distribution of these coins and their packaging could be $56 in excess of the $21 or so current value of the silver in the coin. To the extent that fixed costs are being allocated to the price, the much higher price could make the situation worse by reducing the number of units sold. At one time I purchased two of these each year. I'm now down to one, and if the price goes much higher, I won't be buying any.  I stopped buying silver proof sets when the price suddenly increased in 2020 from $56 to $105. 

    The mint should look into eliminating any inefficiencies in the production process or risk losing much of its customer base.

  

I understand the change, Sandon. At $24, ASE proofs were HEAVILY subsidized by the taxpayer. That or circulating coin seigniorage, which was and is considerable, particularly for quarters. Every production line was combined to calculate cash flow gain or loss. The Mint now operates as if it were three different operations, none of which may fiscally help any other. 1) Circulating, 2) Bullion, 3) Numismatic. For a few years, INTERNALLY within each division, cash flow was combinable. One numismatic product could effectively subsidize another one. The same for bullion. Also for circulating. Then something ADDITIONAL happened in 2021. For the numismatic division ONLY (circulating quarters STILL subsidize nickels) each individual product must financially stand on its own feet. Hence the huge jumps two years ago. Expect more of this. Will it kill the numismatic division? Maybe so. It MIGHT BE intentional, with this current crowd in power. They call it “rich people problems”.

 

It’s like lawyers with billable hours. Every hour of labor in numismatics and every hour of machine time MUST BE BILLED to a particular product, and all of it must be paid by collectors when they order. Each year the spreadsheets get redone. Price increases are a stone cold guarantee. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by VKurtB

[Sandon]

    The mint is presently charging $35 for a 2022 clad proof set and $130 for a 2022 silver proof set.  These two sets contain identical gem proof coins and are identically packaged, except the dime, quarters and half dollar in the silver set are struck on .999 silver planchets containing, per the mint's website, a total of 1.473 troy ounces of silver, worth $30.93 at $21 per ounce. (Today's price is around $20.)   If the price is adjusted for the value of the silver, the price for a silver proof set should be $66.  It doesn't seem possible that it could cost $64 more to fabricate silver planchets than clad ones. The government should be allowed a reasonable profit on all of these sets, but it still makes no sense that a set containing $31 in silver should cost $95 more than the identical set with clad instead of silver coins.

    When I started collecting coins in the 1970s, I was satisfied with the clad proof and uncirculated coin sets that, together with 40% silver Eisenhower dollars, were the mint's only offerings.  Soon my purchases from the mint will again be limited to clad proof and uncirculated coin sets.

   

 

[EagleRJO]

Concerning the packaging for the 2023 proof ASE coin, the $5 add cost would be for a "gift" box.  Previously, the clamshell box was referred to as a "presentation" box, and I can't imagine any other box the mint would refer to as a "gift" box for additional money.  So I'm pretty sure it will be the clamshell style.  I will post the box I actually receive.

Concerning the cost, a $23 proof ASE in 1986 inflation adjusted to 2022 would be a little over $61.  The coin is presently $80 without the nice clamshell style presentation box the 1986 coin came in, so it would be $85 with this box.  That's $24 (exceeding the cost of a 1986 coin) or 40% over the $61 inflation adjusted price!  That is ridiculous, and with any further big price jumps I may very well bail on the proof ASE's.

Part of the issue is two years ago the mint went woke, with DEI requirements that dictated people be hired for other than they be the most qualified people for various positions.  They also started introducing less desirable coins to collectors that met the new DEI guidelines, which of course are running at a loss and needs to be made up elsewhere.  It really is a shame that this recent crazy DEI nonsense has carried over into the numismatic world.

Edited March 12, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Mr.Bill347]

I am also planning on cutting back on mint subscriptions. When I can get a graded MS70 Eagle for $40, why keep on buying the proof for $80? Further, I have a subscription on Morgan and Peace dollars but why? The anniversary coin hype is over, and why  perpetuate that hype? Finally, as a collector of proof sets, I totally agree with @Sandon that the silver proof sets are way out of proportion so I will only be getting the clad version. Gosh, I’m starting to think 🤔 maybe it’s not the direction I want to go. I, like @Eagle May drop the ASE as well.

I will say this, the last two ASE’s I got were much better quality, and other than the fancy embossed box, hate the cheap packaging.

[EagleRJO]

On 3/10/2023 at 7:39 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

When I can get a graded MS70 Eagle for $40, why keep on buying the proof for $80?

I, like @Eagle May drop the ASE as well.

If you don't mind sharing, where do you get the graded MS70 proof ASE for $40.

Also, I haven't dropped the proof ASE's yet, I just canceled the subscription. I ordered one more from the mint with the $5 "gift box" to check quality and see if the box is in fact the clamshell style, which I think would be nice with the new embossed outer sleeve.

On 3/10/2023 at 7:39 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

I will say this, the last two ASE’s I got were much better quality, and other than the fancy embossed box, hate the cheap packaging.

I didn't really like the 2022 proof ASE (weaker strike, a few small air bubbles in the capsule, and the change to a cheesy dollar store box).  I will decide if I am completely bailing on adding any more to my proof ASE collection after I receive the one I ordered and look at everything closely.

Edited March 12, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Mr.Bill347]

Eagle from Coin adviser on EBay.

price was $47 free shipping when I got mine.

[EagleRJO]

Thanks Bill, NP that it's a special issue for more money as I was just curious.  All of my proof ASE's are in the OGP.  That one is a first strike which dealers usually upcharge for, and I really cant see why people pay extra for that.  Check out NGC's release designations.  To each his own.

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/designations/

Btw, there was an entire write-up of the Type-1 versus Type-2 2021 silver eagles on one of the bullion dealer's sites, and I think the Type-2 is hands down the better looking reverse ... 

https://www.herobullion.com/type-1-versus-type-2-silver-eagles/

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:59 PM, EagleRJO said:

Part of the issue is two years ago the mint went woke, with DEI requirements that dictated people be hired for other than they be the most qualified people for various positions.

The truth of this is indisputable when one spends nearly a straight half hour doing ANA show badges for Mint staff. EVERY one of them is of an “underserved” demographic. “Nobody from the Mint looks like me.”

[JT2]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:59 AM, EagleRJO said:

s two years ago the mint went woke, with DEI requirements that

You hit the nail on the head... i work as a contractor to a government agency and the hallways are filled with............well lets just say if i put on a dress i could get hired by them...

[EagleRJO]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:59 AM, EagleRJO said:

Part of the issue is two years ago the mint went woke, with DEI requirements that dictated people be hired for other than they be the most qualified people for various positions.

That's how you end up with a 2023 circulation quarter struck on a pure silver planchet, with that off-the-rails error periodically asked about here, as the new DEI forklift operator grabbed a pure silver coil to make planchets for the circulation strike run of quarters. 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by EagleRJO

[EagleRJO]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:19 PM, VKurtB said:

I hope the $5 box IS the one you seek. That would be very nice. I had not heard there was a milk spot fix. Again, I hope that’s right.

@VKurtBand @Mr.Bill347Unfortunately the "gift box" for an additional $5 is just a larger book sized decorative outer box with US mint tissue paper and filler wrapped around the typical cheap dollar store smaller mint box.  It would be suitable to say add a sticker on the outer gift box and put it under a tree as a gift.  It was not the anticipated felt covered clamshell style presentation box used prior to mid-2021.  So, adding the $5 hoping it was an upgrade to the clamshell style box was a fail.

On 3/10/2023 at 7:39 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

I, like @Eagle May drop the ASE as well

On 3/10/2023 at 11:49 AM, EagleRJO said:

I didn't really like the 2022 proof ASE (weaker strike, a few small air bubbles in the capsule, and the change to a cheesy dollar store box).  I will decide if I am completely bailing on adding any more to my proof ASE collection after I receive the one I ordered and look at everything closely.

Well, the 2023 Proof ASE was $91 including the gift box and S&H (strike one); the mint continues to use the cheap dollar store presentation box with the flimsy plastic insert that has glued on felt which was already starting to peel off (strike two); and the coin capsule had some cloudy areas and several air bubbles or spots (strike three).

I have purchased multiple boxes of Direct-Fit, AirTite, and even cheap knock-off coin capsules without any air-bubbles or spots on the capsules, so how hard could it be to match that quality considering it is the US mint after all.  Add to that the issue the mint is having with milk spots, and I think I am done with Collecting ASE's.

Edited April 8, 2023 by EagleRJO