Need Advice on 1945 Wheat Penny Triple Struck on Both Sides with Rotation is it Worth Grading? 0

[Robs1981]

[Greenstang]

Welcome to the Forum

Could you supply a larger clear photo of both sides, not a screen shot. Would like to see the whole coin.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Greenstang

[powermad5000]

Agreed. It will be necessary to give us full clear images of both sides of the coin to be able to determine what happened to it.

[Robs1981]

Please see the attached photos

[J P M]

Cool looking , It looks like it may have got stuck and could be a triple strike. I can see shadows.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:43 PM, J P M said:

Cool looking , It looks like it may have got stuck and could be a triple strike. I can see shadows.

It looks like the lower left truncation of the bust shows signs of multiple strikes, as well as the head and IGWT. I didn't like this coin because the rev looked clean at first but the extendo wheat stalk on the right makes this coin look like it's a winner. I'll have to check this out again in the morning.

[Greenstang]

Question-

Why is there an impression of a rim on the Obverse, the rim is on the planchet and would not show on a double strike.       Also why is the double strike only showing on a few letters, the double strikes I have seen shows doubling of the whole.      design not just part of it.

[Robs1981]

My father has had this coin since around 1970, he found it after the recovery of his stolen coin collection and had held onto it till he passed away in 2020 when I inherited it. It is definitely different than any double strikes that I agave seen pictures of and definitely shows triple striking in the lettering and date. That is why I am asking if this is something very special that I have?

[Sandon]

   If by "something very special" you mean that you could retire on the proceeds of the coin's sale, the answer is almost certainly "no." Multiple strikes of 95% copper Lincoln cents generically list $50 in the 2022 "Redbook". It is my understanding that the more desirable ones are those where the additional strikes create stronger multiple images than on your coin. Some spectacular examples, which this one isn't, may realize substantially more than $50, but still not a fortune.  It's also not completely clear to me or others who have replied to your post that your coin is a multiple strike and isn't the result of damage, whether intentional or unintentional.

   Perhaps another member of the forum who is more of an error enthusiast than I could provide additional insight, but the coin doesn't seem to be worth the cost of certification. (At NGC this would be $23 for grading + $18 for error attribution + $10 processing fee + postage and insurance both ways, assuming you've already paid for a membership. ANACS might be somewhat less expensive.)

[Coinbuf]

I will be at the ANA show again tomorrow, Sulivan Numismatics is at this show and is a specialist in error coins.   If they are still at the show tomorrow I will show them your photos and see if they have any insight.   Some parts look like a vice job and others look legit.

[powermad5000]

Something does not jive with me on this coin. Thinking of the famous 1955 DDO Lincoln Wheat cent, and all DDO,s for that matter, the strikes all fall within the same rim as the planchet is still in the collar but struck twice, producing two images which by the way are both just as crisp as each other. I have a TDR proof 1955 and wish this topic came up before I went to my safe deposit box today so I could have taken a picture of the reverse. My lament aside, the tripled images are also not crisp with my mind referring back to the 1955 DDO example in which there are two crisp distinct images. I also note on the obverse the tripling does not translate fully over to the west side of the coin and in particular LIBERTY, nor does it translate to the head and the date as well. I also note an incuse ghost of a tilted 1945 above the date on the obverse which makes less sense to me. What I also note is if somehow the coin was popping out of the collar the obverse and reverse would have corresponding movement and the pattern on the reverse does not seem to match the pattern of movement on the obverse. Also, once again, the tripling on the reverse is not a crisp image side by side by side. I am not exactly sure how this was produced but I am going to venture out and say this could not have happened during the striking process.

[l.cutler]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:34 AM, powermad5000 said:

Something does not jive with me on this coin. Thinking of the famous 1955 DDO Lincoln Wheat cent, and all DDO,s for that matter, the strikes all fall within the same rim as the planchet is still in the collar but struck twice, producing two images which by the way are both just as crisp as each other. I have a TDR proof 1955 and wish this topic came up before I went to my safe deposit box today so I could have taken a picture of the reverse. My lament aside, the tripled images are also not crisp with my mind referring back to the 1955 DDO example in which there are two crisp distinct images. I also note on the obverse the tripling does not translate fully over to the west side of the coin and in particular LIBERTY, nor does it translate to the head and the date as well. I also note an incuse ghost of a tilted 1945 above the date on the obverse which makes less sense to me. What I also note is if somehow the coin was popping out of the collar the obverse and reverse would have corresponding movement and the pattern on the reverse does not seem to match the pattern of movement on the obverse. Also, once again, the tripling on the reverse is not a crisp image side by side by side. I am not exactly sure how this was produced but I am going to venture out and say this could not have happened during the striking process.

You are confusing doubled die and double struck, two totally different things.

[J P M]

Well from what I can see in the photos'  Lincolns bust the lettering of liberty and the date rotated counter clockwise. None of the letters are reversed on either side and some devices are stretched so I am ruling out a vice job. It is not a bold second strike but it is there IMO ..it is more like a double bounce of the die after the strike. How it happened I don't know but something gave way for this coin to look the way it does.

[powermad5000]

On 3/3/2023 at 2:47 AM, l.cutler said:

You are confusing doubled die and double struck, two totally different things.

I'm only trying to explain what I see (and probably in a terrible way) as it is a confusing coin...

[Coinbuf]

I did stop by the table of Sullivan Numismatics today and showed him the photos.   He was not very helpful and would not comment other than to say he would have to see it in hand but indicated that he was doubtful of it being an authentic double or triple struck coin.   My gut feel is this was restruck from counterfeit dies and is not a true error from the mint, however, I want to say that all we have to go from are the photos and I think an inhand review would be required before any determination can be made.

@Robs1981 My suggestion is that you hold onto the coin and perhaps make direct contact with one of the mint error dealers and see about having the coin examined in person.   That may require you to send the coin to a dealer or perhaps if you can attend a coin show where one of those dealers is attending.

[Robs1981]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:46 PM, Coinbuf said:

I did stop by the table of Sullivan Numismatics today and showed him the photos.   He was not very helpful and would not comment other than to say he would have to see it in hand but indicated that he was doubtful of it being an authentic double or triple struck coin.   My gut feel is this was restruck from counterfeit dies and is not a true error from the mint, however, I want to say that all we have to go from are the photos and I think an inhand review would be required before any determination can be made.

@Robs1981 My suggestion is that you hold onto the coin and perhaps make direct contact with one of the mint error dealers and see about having the coin examined in person.   That may require you to send the coin to a dealer or perhaps if you can attend a coin show where one of those dealers is attending.

I was with my dad in around 1971 at Camino Coin in Burlingam California, it was sent off by them and it was said to be authentic, be whom I do not know. I remember taking it to the San Mateo County Sheriffs office and photos being taken of the coin which I have. Thank you very much for your advice and I will keep asking till I can find out what it is that I actually have. Robert