Copper Rounds 0

[EagleRJO]

I have been seeing a lot of copper rounds like the attached for sale lately.  They are mostly 1-ounce and 39mm diameter "coins" or bullion rounds.  I see gold and silver rounds as an alternative to bullion bars that just look a little nicer, and I do have some of those,  But the copper rounds are dirt cheap, so not a good metals investment, and don't seem to be something collectible as they are mostly just copies of certain elements of more popular coins or have elements similar to commemorative coins.  When I looked on Apmex's site I was pretty surprised to see that they have over 90 different ones for sale.

I cant see why people would buy these, except as inexpensive novelty items.  And is this some type of recent craze, due to the sheer number available, or have I just noticed them more recently. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by EagleRJO

[GoldFinger1969]

Way to "invest" in a cheaper metal -- about $4 per ounce -- which I think is ridiculous.  If you want to play copper, buy a copper stock.

[J P M]

I know there are a few of the regulars here that collect some. I do not like them I think they take something away from the real coin. The same way a 5 oz. round does. Not my cup of tea. but some like that stuff.

Edited January 18, 2023 by J P M

[EagleRJO]

Not looking to play copper as I have my hands full with gold and silver bullion in addition to the coin collection and other investments.  For physical bullion a kilo bar goes for under $80, which I agree just doesn't work.  I was mostly just curious about the number of different rounds available and seeing a lot of them recently considering how inexpensive they are.

For people that may collect some of these, are there others that are more unique than what I may find on say the Apmex site?

https://www.apmex.com/category/34250/copper-rounds

Edited January 18, 2023 by EagleRJO

[GoldFinger1969]

Someone is going to need THOUSANDS of these to play any rise in copper (which I do agree has upside over time).

But whatevere quantity that is....it's 8x that of silver.....and 500x that of gold !! 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

The premium on copper rounds is too high, and will eat any potential for profit.  If the collector likes the round and enjoys looking at it; that's all fine and good.  There are thousands of designs from which to choose, and this is a very budget friendly way to collect designs that speak to the collector. But, "stacking" copper rounds as an investment is likely to leave the investor upside-down.

I have a 7 gallon bucket full of pre-1982 copper cents.  I have a Rydale machine that can sort copper from zinc at blazing speed, and it's fun.  However, it is a terrible investment.  Just to melt the cents and make bars would eat-up any profit in propane and refining costs.  Cents are presumed to be 2:1 profit based on weight value, so the cost basis for copper does not get much cheaper... but you would barely break-even in collecting cents for their bullion weight.  I do it for fun, and because my kids love loading up the machine and watching them spit-out like a machine gun -- not because I believe it to be profitable at all.

Collect it because it's fun and because you like it... there is no financial payoff here.

[RWB]

Your local hardware store sells copper pipe and sheets a lot cheaper than in 1-oz (Troy or Avoirdupois?) stamped pieces of indescribable ugliness.

[Crawtomatic]

On 1/18/2023 at 4:27 PM, RWB said:

Your local hardware store sells copper pipe and sheets a lot cheaper than in 1-oz (Troy or Avoirdupois?) stamped pieces of indescribable ugliness.

Let's derail into base metals and lowest acquisition costs.  Scrapping!  Or, as I like to call it, aggressive recycling.  I'm by no means one of those truck driving guys loading up every cut of fence and busted washing machine.  But, if I happen to see some janky electronics on the curb for bulk pickup there's a 70/30 chance I'll throw it in the back of the swagger wagon.  Which then ends up in a pile in the garage.  Which makes for a relaxing experience tearing down later screw by screw.  To be further separated into plastics, steel, aluminum, copper/brass, etc...  There's so much metal (mostly steel & aluminum) in things people just throw into a landfill.  Especially when you consider how intensive it is to mine & refine aluminum.

Far less often, I setup the propane furnace on the side patio and melt and pour the items.  One of these days I'll actually try some sand or lost-foam casting.

That's a "pure" hobby though.  The kind that you do for the pleasure and have no perceptions that you'll make profit off of it.

[Crawtomatic]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:44 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

The premium on copper rounds is too high, and will eat any potential for profit.  If the collector likes the round and enjoys looking at it; that's all fine and good.  There are thousands of designs from which to choose, and this is a very budget friendly way to collect designs that speak to the collector. But, "stacking" copper rounds as an investment is likely to leave the investor upside-down.

I have a 7 gallon bucket full of pre-1982 copper cents.  I have a Rydale machine that can sort copper from zinc at blazing speed, and it's fun.  However, it is a terrible investment.  Just to melt the cents and make bars would eat-up any profit in propane and refining costs.  Cents are presumed to be 2:1 profit based on weight value, so the cost basis for copper does not get much cheaper... but you would barely break-even in collecting cents for their bullion weight.  I do it for fun, and because my kids love loading up the machine and watching them spit-out like a machine gun -- not because I believe it to be profitable at all.

Collect it because it's fun and because you like it... there is no financial payoff here.

Pretty jealous you have a Rydale.  I considered one a few years back but decided against it.  Have you seen the pics of the copper cent stackers that have 50 gallon drums full of them?  So excessive and definitely not a good store of value.

But separating out the copper at least makes hunting varieties a little easier by narrowing the focus.

[EagleRJO]

I'm not looking into scrap metal as a hobby or copper bullion, but was more interested if there was an inexpensive collecting potential I wasn't seeing.

Like in addition to roll hunting modern quarters I collect modern dollar coins (all years and marks) in BU and PR grades starting with Presidential dollars (only missing one) and continuing with Innovation dollars (I'm up to date), which are not very expensive at all for almost all of them but where I enjoyed collecting them.

Another option would be to continue working back with modern dollars, but figured I would ask about the copper rounds.  Maybe @Hoghead515might know as he also enjoys some of the less expensive coins I collect.

Edited January 18, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Hoghead515]

On 1/18/2023 at 6:20 PM, EagleRJO said:

I'm not looking into scrap metal as a hobby or copper bullion, but was more interested if there was an inexpensive collecting potential I wasn't seeing.

Like in addition to roll hunting modern quarters I collect modern dollar coins (all years and marks) in BU and PR grades starting with Presidential dollars (only missing one) and continuing with Innovation dollars (I'm up to date), which are not very expensive at all for almost all of them but where I enjoyed collecting them.

Another option would be to continue working back with modern dollars, but figured I would ask about the copper rounds.  Maybe @Hoghead515might know as he also enjoys some of the less expensive coins I collect.

Ive to a liking into a few world coins. Theres a few issues out there very inexpensive and beautiful coins. Ive ventured in farthings here lately. Victorian era. 

[Lem E]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:04 PM, Crawtomatic said:

swagger wagon

[ShinyObjects]

I sometimes buy copper rounds when I like the design or they have a matching silver coin. It's kinda cool when you have matching pairs of coins you like.

 

 

[ShinyObjects]

[ShinyObjects]

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:27 PM, RWB said:

Your local hardware store sells copper pipe and sheets a lot cheaper than in 1-oz (Troy or Avoirdupois?) stamped pieces of indescribable ugliness. 

Someone in my family once lost a small fortune in copper.  Really bad financial decision.

Oh wait.....that was an episode of "Sanford and Son" from the early-1970's.   Never mind !!! 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Saw a bearish article in BARRON'S saying that copper could fall to about $3.20 a pound from the recent (at the time of printing in early-January) $3.85.  Copper has actually gone UP since then I believe.

Long-term, I like the metal.

[EagleRJO]

@ShinyObjectsI like the matching coins, although the ones I was looking into were different as the silver ones were still legal tender.  I did order one since it was so cheap (under $2) as part of a dealer order so there would be no shipping cost.  I will have to see if I like it in-hand and keep my eyes open for matching rounds which is pretty cool for $1 to $2.

[ShinyObjects]

On 1/19/2023 at 6:48 PM, EagleRJO said:

@ShinyObjectsI like the matching coins, although the ones I was looking into were different as the silver ones were still legal tender.  I did order one since it was so cheap (under $2) as part of a dealer order so there would be no shipping cost.  I will have to see if I like it in-hand and keep my eyes open for matching rounds which is pretty cool for $1 to $2.

It's neat to see the coins design in different metals. Sometimes the copper strikes look better than the silver, depends on the coin/round. I dont mind collecting them here and there as a novelty. 

[Crawtomatic]

On 1/18/2023 at 6:46 PM, Lem E said:

 

[J P M]

This is my, Antique Toyota Swagger Wagon  

[EagleRJO]

I received the copper round I ordered just to check these out, and it has some nice detail and mirror like surfaces.  Also, at one ounce and 39mm diameter it's a nice larger size with some heft, which I prefer.  Not bad for under $2, but of course different from the silver trade dollar it was based on.  I will have to keep my eyes open for ones where there is a matching silver and copper round which I think is interesting, but I just don't see it as another low-cost area for collecting.

Edited January 28, 2023 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:20 PM, EagleRJO said:

but was more interested if there was an inexpensive collecting potential I wasn't seeing.

Nope. There is nothing there. Just more marketing to separate fools from their money. Par for the course. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by VKurtB

[EagleRJO]

More of a novelty item at $2

[Mr.Bill347]

On 1/21/2023 at 4:52 PM, J P M said:

This is my, Antique Toyota Swagger Wagon  

Wow! I don’t think I have ever seen one of those! Great swaggin wagon!

[EagleRJO]

On 1/18/2023 at 12:17 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Way to "invest" in a cheaper metal -- about $4 per ounce -- which I think is ridiculous.  If you want to play copper, buy a copper stock.

That $4/ounce spot price didn't look right as the 1-ounce copper round I just purchased was about $2.  Spot price for copper today is $0.26/ounce.  That is quite a mark-up for the copper bullion rounds above the spot price. 

Copper Bullion Spot Prices