Hello again looks like another non variety. Bicentennial Half 1 1

[Posso]

Hello to all, It’s another non variety. Stupid question or not?

Edited December 6, 2022 by Posso

[JKK]

Stupid, no; valuable, also no. I'd guess that the faint lines you see are a slight die crack. This was pretty common with Morgans, but minting came a long way by the bicentennial. No special value.

[Posso]

On 12/6/2022 at 3:54 PM, JKK said:

Stupid, no; valuable, also no. I'd guess that the faint lines you see are a slight die crack. This was pretty common with Morgans, but minting came a long way by the bicentennial. No special value.

Thanks for your response. So a crack on the die caused the raised area? Just a little more info here. The lines up close and personal look bigger  and what looks like a star beneath and on both sides of the L is big compared to the thinly raised line.  If it were a star is there another way it could of happened. Or it is what is?

[Sandon]

@Posso--Your photo is too "washed out" from an overhead bright light for me to tell whether the coin shows anything other than post-mint damage.  The coin is well-circulated for a clad half dollar and clearly shows many nicks, scratches and abrasions.  Most or all of the line that extends from the area before "H" through the "D" appears to be a light scratch.  The depressions on the "D" and "O" are clearly nicks.  The area you say looks like a star appears to be raised and could be from something sunken into the die that caused a depression, but I can't really tell. It clearly doesn't match the stars above it, which could be evidence of a light double strike if it did match. Whatever it is, it wouldn't be considered a major error.

   I suggest that you take another photo with the camera light dimmed or off and lit by a table lamp from the side and post it if it shows a clearer image of the area in question.

[JKK]

On 12/6/2022 at 4:34 PM, Posso said:

Thanks for your response. So a crack on the die caused the raised area? Just a little more info here. The lines up close and personal look bigger  and what looks like a star beneath and on both sides of the L is big compared to the thinly raised line.  If it were a star is there another way it could of happened. Or it is what is?

I don't believe in a star there. It might have a vague shape like one but I think that's just more of the incipient die damage.

[J P M]

Sorry to say .It looks like mostly PMD and the star you see would be to large in comparison to any other star on the coin to be a clash. 

[Posso]

On 12/6/2022 at 6:36 PM, Sandon said:

@Posso--Your photo is too "washed out" from an overhead bright light for me to tell whether the coin shows anything other than post-mint damage.  The coin is well-circulated for a clad half dollar and clearly shows many nicks, scratches and abrasions.  Most or all of the line that extends from the area before "H" through the "D" appears to be a light scratch.  The depressions on the "D" and "O" are clearly nicks.  The area you say looks like a star appears to be raised and could be from something sunken into the die that caused a depression, but I can't really tell. It clearly doesn't match the stars above it, which could be evidence of a light double strike if it did match. Whatever it is, it wouldn't be considered a major error.

   I suggest that you take another photo with the camera light dimmed or off and lit by a table lamp from the side and post it if it shows a clearer image of the area in question.

I took some light off the photo. It’s probably the best you’ll get. It’s only visible from the side. 

[Posso]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:19 PM, JKK said:

I don't believe in a star there. It might have a vague shape like one but I think that's just more of the incipient die damage.

Here’s another picture with less light.

 

[Sandon]

   The apparently raised area around the first "L" is roughly rectangular and definitely not a star or other displaced reverse design element.  The line through "O" to this area also appears to be raised and to match Kennedy's hairline on the opposite side.  The roughly rectangular area is likely from the raised lock of Kennedy's hair near the "B" of "LIBERTY". It now appears that your coin exhibits clash marks.  These occur when the dies come together (clash) in the press without a planchet (coinage blank) between them, causing traces of the design from one die to transfer to the other and causing subsequently struck coins to show these traces as a mirror image.  Clash marks were very common on older U.S. coins and still fairly common today.  They add no significant value to the coin unless spectacular, which this one isn't.

   Here's an uncirculated 1865 copper nickel three cent piece from my collection that shows clash marks on each side.  On the obverse you can see the outline of parts of the Roman numeral "III" and the wreath from the reverse.  On the reverse you can see the outline of parts of Liberty's profile, including her nose, mouth, and chin, from the obverse.  The clash marks don't add any value to this coin either, but they are interesting.

 

 

 

   

 

[Posso]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:06 AM, Sandon said:

   The apparently raised area around the first "L" is roughly rectangular and definitely not a star or other displaced reverse design element.  The line through "O" to this area also appears to be raised and to match Kennedy's hairline on the opposite side.  The roughly rectangular area is likely from the raised lock of Kennedy's hair near the "B" of "LIBERTY". It now appears that your coin exhibits clash marks.  These occur when the dies come together (clash) in the press without a planchet (coinage blank) between them, causing traces of the design from one die to transfer to the other and causing subsequently struck coins to show these traces as a mirror image.  Clash marks were very common on older U.S. coins and still fairly common today.  They add no significant value to the coin unless spectacular, which this one isn't.

   Here's an uncirculated 1865 copper nickel three cent piece from my collection that shows clash marks on each side.  On the obverse you can see the outline of parts of the Roman numeral "III" and the wreath from the reverse.  On the reverse you can see the outline of parts of Liberty's profile, including her nose, mouth, and chin, from the obverse.  The clash marks don't add any value to this coin either, but they are interesting.

 

 

 

   

 

Though no outstanding it’s very cool because it’s Kennedy hair. Like I said I have another 1971 with a lesser trace of what now appears to be a trace of these same type of clash mark of Kennedy’s hair on the bicentennial. Could it be that part of the same die was used on the bicentennial, maybe it just had gotten more die to die clashes after the annealing process? I think it’s a super nice find. Very intriguing to say the least. 👍👍👍 to you.  Thank you 

[Sandon]

On 12/7/2022 at 10:49 AM, Posso said:

Like I said I have another 1971 with a lesser trace of what now appears to be a trace of these same type of clash mark of Kennedy’s hair on the bicentennial. Could it be that part of the same die was used on the bicentennial, maybe it just had gotten more die to die clashes after the annealing process?

    It's not possible that the same die was used in 1971 and 1976 because the date on the obverse was different in 1971 and the entire reverse design was different in 1976!  Moreover, coins are made from production dies, each pair of which (obverse and reverse) is capable of striking several hundred thousand coins before the dies are retired due to die erosion, serious cracks, clash marks and the like.  There are no separate "parts" of a single (obverse or reverse) production die.  In 1971 the Denver mint struck over 302 million half dollars, over 287 million in 1976.  Hundreds to a thousand or more pairs of production dies would have been used in each of these years!  

    As I understand the process, the production dies are made from other dies called "hubs", which are in turn made from the master dies. There could be no clashing of obverse and reverse hubs or master dies in this process, as each is used only to make a die of its own type.

   Clash marks tend to appear in the same places on coins of the same type because the obverse and reverse production dies are supposed to be in the same orientation to each other, a 180 degree "coin turn" on U.S. coins. It's no surprise that Kennedy's hairline near the top of the obverse would appear on the bottom of the reverse no matter what pair of dies in any year had clashed.

[Posso]

On 12/7/2022 at 10:13 AM, Sandon said:

    It's not possible that the same die was used in 1971 and 1976 because the date on the obverse was different in 1971 and the entire reverse design was different in 1976!  Moreover, coins are made from production dies, each pair of which (obverse and reverse) is capable of striking several hundred thousand coins before the dies are retired due to die erosion, serious cracks, clash marks and the like.  There are no separate "parts" of a single (obverse or reverse) production die.  In 1971 the Denver mint struck over 302 million half dollars, over 287 million in 1976.  Hundreds to a thousand or more pairs of production dies would have been used in each of these years!  

    As I understand the process, the production dies are made from other dies called "hubs", which are in turn made from the master dies. There could be no clashing of obverse and reverse hubs or master dies in this process, as each is used only to make a die of its own type.

   Clash marks tend to appear in the same places on coins of the same type because the obverse and reverse production dies are supposed to be in the same orientation to each other, a 180 degree "coin turn" on U.S. coins. It's no surprise that Kennedy's hairline near the top of the obverse would appear on the bottom of the reverse no matter what pair of dies in any year had clashed.

I get it. I watched the Wexter’s die varieties video and read a lot about the process today. Very educational for beginners, great information.
Thanks

[Sandon]

   The U.S. Mint's website, www.usmint.gov, also has videos and other features explaining how coins are made.

[RWB]

No question is "stupid" when asked honestly. Ask away!