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Prooflike Hawaiian Quarter... yeah, that's a thing
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Started by physics-fan3.14,

23 posts in this topic

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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And no, I don't mean the America the Beautiful Quarter!

In 1883, there was a sugar baron who contracted to supply coinage to the (then independent) islands of Hawaii. Charles Barber designed the coins, using a bust of the current King Kalakaua I of Hawaii and the shield reverse. 5 denominations were designed (10 cent, 12.5 cent, quarter, half, and dollar), although the 12.5 cent was never issued for circulation (very rare proofs were made). The rest of them used the same silver planchets that standard US coins utilized. The coins were minted in San Francisco and saw limited circulation, but a large number were melted.

As far as I know, only the quarter and half dollar are known in PL condition. I've long watched, waited, and bid unsuccessfully. But now, its mine! This one is graded MS-64PL, and has such intense mirrors and cameo contrast. Very few PL coins have such stark contrast. Feel free to comment, or post your Hawaiian coins if you have them! 

 

 IMG_0056.thumb.jpg.a2ae152734104ae727f53b41f5a6e644.jpg

IMG_0058.thumb.jpg.e7a4f8fb33129e10692f037d976f554f.jpg

 

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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On 11/18/2022 at 7:13 PM, RWB said:

The photo does no suggest a PL coin.

Roger, I respect your opinion on coins more than almost anyone else, and you know this. 

Literally everything about this coin screams PL. 

Please, tell me what you think, and explain your cryptic post. 

The mirrors on this coin are ridiculous. I'm being literally blinded right now because of the white screen on this website, reflected in the deep mirrors of this coin sitting on my desk. 

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zadok

zadok

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On 11/18/2022 at 7:43 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

Roger, I respect your opinion on coins more than almost anyone else, and you know this. 

Literally everything about this coin screams PL. 

Please, tell me what you think, and explain your cryptic post. 

The mirrors on this coin are ridiculous. I'm being literally blinded right now because of the white screen on this website, reflected in the deep mirrors of this coin sitting on my desk. 

...nice PROOF LIKE coin....

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Sandon

Sandon

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    Some years ago, this coin would have been referred to as "semi-prooflike" because of the amount of "cartwheel" (frost) showing in the fields when the coin is rotated under a light.  Whatever it's called, it's a very nice uncirculated Hawaiian quarter with some contrast between the fields and devices that its owner has every right to be proud of!

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Coinbuf

Coinbuf

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That is a great looking coin, controversy notwithstanding, I love the design and would enjoy having such a wonderful example in my collection.   Congrats on your newp!

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Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

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On 11/18/2022 at 7:13 PM, RWB said:

The photo does no suggest a PL coin.

I am tempted to ask if you are speaking ex cathedra for attribution  :roflmao: but regardless, those of us who pay particular attention to your pronouncements are left with the impression you do not engage in idle talk and reckless speculation. Enquiring minds who have thus far chimed in, as well as the OP, are curious as to the basis for your impression. What is it about the photo of this coin that suggests it is not proof-like, or do you simply dislike the term, either for the time-period, or any other reason.  I have no opinion.

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RWB

RWB

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On 11/18/2022 at 7:43 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

Roger, I respect your opinion on coins more than almost anyone else, and you know this. 

Literally everything about this coin screams PL. 

Please, tell me what you think, and explain your cryptic post. 

The mirrors on this coin are ridiculous. I'm being literally blinded right now because of the white screen on this website, reflected in the deep mirrors of this coin sitting on my desk. 

The fields do not have any kind of mirror-like appearance from the photos -- just early luster in a radial pattern. Maybe some printed page reflections would help.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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On 11/18/2022 at 10:01 PM, Just Bob said:

Are you adding world proof like coins to your collection, or just the world coins minted in the US? 

You could say I already might have a few ;)

https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetGallery.aspx?s=27305

 

And, these Hawaiian coins are some strange mix.... they were minted by the US, for a foreign country, that then became part of the US. Are they world coins? Are they US? I don't know what to think! Similar with the coins of the Philippines (although I don't have any of those). 

Edited by physics-fan3.14
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RWB

RWB

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Hawaii was an independent country, so the coins were struck in 1883 for a foreign government just as were those for El Salvador or Ecuador. That it later became a US colonial territory and then a state is interesting.

Philippines were a Spanish colony given to the USA after the Spanish-American war. It was not independent at any point in the 19th century. The coins made for use there were indirect obligations of the US under the Philippine Organic Act. Much the same for Puerto Rico.

1499469950_18830907Hawaiiproofsandengravingbill.thumb.jpg.19e3363902389898c80bce01e0bfe1dd.jpg

 

Edited by RWB
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Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

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This would probably extend to Alaska as well, , but while I have seen examples of coinage from Hawaii (as well as the Philippines and Puerto Rico) I don't recall seeing any, pre-statehood (1959) from Alaska.  No matter.

The OP states he acquired this coin which had been certified and authenticated as an MS-64 PL. It's a lovely coin, no doubt about it. What I would like to know is what basis the TPGS relied upon to make their determination. How would this coin differ from a "blast-white" B.U? I would have thought the matter of what constitutes a PL would have been well-settled by now.

 

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RWB

RWB

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On 11/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

How would this coin differ from a "blast-white" B.U? I would have thought the matter of what constitutes a PL would have been well-settled by now.

Very easy to make this an empirical measurement -- but the TPGs resist, hence we find nice BU coins labeled PL when, so far as can be determined by photos, they are not.

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VKurtB

VKurtB

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On 11/19/2022 at 4:20 PM, RWB said:

so far as can be determined by photos

Amen. It is the EXTREMELY RARE single still photo that can do this. 

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VKurtB

VKurtB

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On 11/19/2022 at 12:55 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I would have thought the matter of what constitutes a PL would have been well-settled by now.

We all think it would have been settled by now, yet here we are. Not settled. Yet contrast does matter, as it should. 

Edited by VKurtB
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zadok

zadok

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On 11/19/2022 at 6:16 PM, RWB said:

Hubs of Hawai'i 1883 coins.

623161071_19591125HawaiihubsinEngraversvault.thumb.jpg.40fd957b6789354b0b8202276c9475b0.jpg

...that by itself does not determine whether any coins that r proof like were or were not struck from those same dies....

Edited by zadok
grammar
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Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

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On 11/19/2022 at 6:16 PM, RWB said:

Hubs of Hawai'i 1883 coins.

623161071_19591125HawaiihubsinEngraversvault.thumb.jpg.40fd957b6789354b0b8202276c9475b0.jpg

The unorthodox spelling you've used is in fact the correct, formal spelling of the original island nation. (I take it the penciled notation at the bottom of the memorandum----in a display of "bureaucratese"----indicates a collect telephone call had been placed to facilitate communication.)

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Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

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On 11/19/2022 at 9:45 PM, zadok said:

...that by itself doesnt not determine whether any coins that r proof like were or were not struck from those same dies....

Would it be correct to say that the first few strikes of a virgin die will produce a sharper relief and as brilliant and pristine a surface as can possibly be achieved which will degrade imperceptibly with further strikes over time?  What enquiring minds want to know is whether the condition,  "proof-like," (admittedly subjective) is the zenith-like manifestation, the epitome, of "original mint luster" attainable?  Are there any official (or anecdotal) figures available to indicate how many of the pieces, like that of the OP's are known to exist? It would have to be a very finite universe----we are talking some 140 years here, now.

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Nervousness.
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